EC Tobacco Subsidy: Policy (Hansard, 19 July 1991)

§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Trumpington)
My Lords, price cuts of 9 per cent. and a stabiliser have been introduced since 1988, following sustained pressure from the UK. These have restrained, but regrettably not prevented, an overall increase in the cost of the regime. The Government spend some £3.5 million per year on publicity about the adverse effects of smoking.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that rather depressing Answer. However, is she aware that it seems to many of us the height of absurdity to use money to finance the production of a commodity and then to use money to persuade people not to use it?

§ Baroness Trumpington
Yes, my Lords. The Government have consistently criticised the tobacco regime on health grounds and will continue to do so. We support the re-orientation of tobacco production away from high-tar varieties as a useful step, but by no means a sufficient one.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there will be some surprise that she did not declare a substantial consumer interest in this Question? Is she further aware that, although her right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture has criticised the recent MacSharry proposals as they affect the tobacco regime, her right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer is sending substantial amounts of British taxpayers' money to Brussels to subsidise the regime, her right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Health is now requiring substantial health warnings to be placed on the front and back of cigarette packets, and her noble friend Lady Hooper has recently been in Brussels on behalf of the Government, opposing the Community's attempts to ban the advertising of tobacco? Is it not time that the Government got their act together on this matter?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, my reply to the noble Lord's first remark is, do as I say, not as I do. We have consistently campaigned for reductions in support. There has been some progress, but significant change will require other member states to join us. I speak on behalf of the Government. So far, except for Denmark and the Netherlands, they show little willingness to do so. The Government will press for the most radical reform achievable in the forthcoming review of the tobacco regime.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, perhaps I may first thank my noble friend for the efforts that she personally has 365 made in order to try to put this matter right. Bearing in mind that the common agricultural policy is now being revised in regard to its cost, would it not be a good thing as part of that provision for the tobacco support, which costs such a lot of money, to be eliminated altogether?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for his first remark. Earlier this year I had the pleasure of his company and that of my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter in an effort to explain the situation to them. Obviously, that did not satisfy them, but I shall continue to try to do so. My noble friend asked, why not abandon support? Tobacco is an agricultural crop eligible for CAP support. In criticising the regime, we are one member state among 12. We are alone in seeking fundamental change in the regime. There is strong support for it, particularly from producer states. About 200,000 holdings are involved in tobacco cultivation, employing almost 800,000 people, mostly in the poorer southern member states. In Greece, up to one-third of the agricultural labour force is involved in the cultivation of tobacco. Noble Lords may be interested to know that tobacco is also grown in Germany and France. Because of terrain, soil and climate, the problem is that few, if any, alternative crops are available.

§ Lord Grimond
My Lords, would it not assist the Government in combating this ludicrous situation if they alerted public opinion to what is happening by marking on all packets of tobacco the announcement, "This comes to you with the help of the EC"? There are many notices in my area telling local electors that good works, such as roads, come to them with the help of the EC and their own council, although the notices should say that they come from the taxpayers of Europe. If they take credit for the good things, should they not also be known for the bad things that they do? Would it not assist the Government in rousing public opinion if that fact were more widely recognised?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, in addition to the £3.5 million per year that the Government spend on the Health Education Authority's programme on smoking, health warnings are printed on cigarette packets and advertisements in the United Kingdom, at no cost to the taxpayer. I shall pass on the noble Lord's suggestion to my right honourable friend.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, has the EC given any thought to the substitution of herbal tobacco as an alternative crop? The taste is so horrible that it quickly kills the taste for smoking.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we shall press for a shift to other crops where there is a valid alternative.

§ Baroness Phillips
My Lords, bearing in mind that later today we are to discuss the Finance Bill, will the Minister explain where the revenue would come from if we were to abolish the tax on tobacco?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I do not think that I can do that. I shall have to write to the noble Baroness.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there is a grave danger in the principle suggested by her noble friend of abolishing all support for tobacco, and that the barley growers and grape growers of Europe might object if that principle were to be carried too far?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lord, I note what the noble Lord says.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, bearing in mind that the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, made a fundamental point in his supplementary question, is the Minister aware of the growing concern about the rapid increase in smoking in schools throughout the nation? Could not that money be well spent in assisting the teachers and headmasters in our schools who are trying to eradicate that evil?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the Government are funding a £2 million a year teenage anti-smoking programme which is now in its second year. Teenage smoking declined from 13 per cent. of 11 to 15 year-olds in 1984 to 8 per cent. in 1988.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that her explanation to my noble friend Lord Renton and me by its clarity increased my disturbance at the whole of this operation? Is she also aware that her argument that the production of tobacco gives good employment would apply with even greater force to the production of cannabis?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend that it is paradoxical to support farmers in growing a crop that is harmful to health. That is why we have consistently sought major reform of the tobacco regime and shall continue to do so. As I said to my noble friend when I saw him, major reform will only become possible when our European partners start to adopt the same firm line as we do.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, can the Minister say why the Government resist a Community proposal to ban tobacco advertising altogether? She may have spoken about that and I missed it. On the other hand, perhaps she did not; in which case, it would be most interesting to know the reason.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we believe that the best way to regulate tobacco advertising is through our system of voluntary agreements. The evidence in support of a total ban on tobacco advertising is equivocal.

§ Lord Airedale
My Lords, as one who had the pleasure of taking part in the meeting with the Minister to which the noble Lord, Lord Renton, referred, does she agree that the root of the problem is that Europe, even southern Europe, is not suited to growing tobacco? The result is that much of the subsidised crop is not of merchantable quality and has to be thrown away, which may be good news for the anti-smoking lobby but is bad news for the taxpayer.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I could have answered all those questions by saying that I agree with noble Lords. But at least we can try to have low tar tobacco grown where it will successfully grow. Many areas in which high tar tobacco is currently grown are, for soil and climatic reasons, unsuited to low tar varieties. Where conversion is possible, it will be difficult because the farms tend to be small and fragmented and conversion involves considerable capital investment in equipment and retraining. In addition, it will reduce employment opportunities as the processes are less labour intensive.