War Veterans (Hansard, 12 July 1991)

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, direct responsibility for matters affecting war veterans forms part of the departmental remit of a number of Ministers. There are no plans to change that arrangement.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, perhaps I may, first, thank the noble Earl for his generosity in giving me so much time to discuss the matter and related issues. However, is he aware that the almost ludicrous situation was not created by former servicemen and women; they simply have to put up with the frustrations which follow from the current situation?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government recognise the immense debt of gratitude owed to war veterans and other former service personnel. I also pay tribute to the work carried out by ex-service organisations such as the Royal British Legion and, indeed, by the noble Lord, Lord Molloy. However, I cannot agree that there is a need for either a new ministerial post or a new department to co-ordinate the present administration of veterans' affairs.
While the Government can, of course, see the apparent attractions of having one department to look after the interests of former servicemen and women, we do not feel that that would necessarily result in a better service for them. That is our most important and continuing aim. A separate department would simply add another layer of administration to the present situation, without providing corresponding benefits.

§ Lord Auckland
My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that the national president of the Royal British Legion recently had a very helpful meeting with my noble friend and kinsman Lord Henley? Declaring my own interest as the president of Surrey county branch of the Royal British Legion, is my noble friend aware that these war veterans are increasing in number every year? Indeed, they need more and more treatment every year. Therefore, can the Treasury and the DSS get together on the matter? A little benevolence on both sides might be a good thing.

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, although the establishment of a separate department may seem an attractive proposition, we are not persuaded that it would lead to a better service. War pensioners are those who suffered actual disablement as a result of service. The war disabled do have special status in this country, as do war widows. Arrangements have been made for war pensioners who have been referred to the appropriate National Health Service hospitals for treatment of their accepted disability to be given priority, subject only to the needs of emergency and urgent cases, which must take precedence. I shall certainly draw the second point to the attention of my noble friend.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that on some occasions, when various departments are involved, one specific department is put into the position of being the lead department? Would it not be natural, in this case, for the department dealing with defence to become a lead department?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, the advantage of the present arrangement is that each 1598 departmental Minister has clearly defined responsibilities for policies and services. If the proposed new department were to have a co-ordinating role it would have to seek the advice of the department responsible for the policy or service in question before dealing with veterans' problems. As I said, that would create a time-consuming extra tier of administration.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, will my noble friend try to persuade the existing departments to improve their arrangements? In a reorganisation of artificial limb and appliance centres which took place four years ago my personal records and measurements were irretrievably lost, although they had been needed every two years since 1946. No doubt others have suffered in the same way.

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, I can only express regret for what happened to my noble friend. Inevitably, from time to time mistakes are made. There are already many services in the UK which do not exist in other countries; for example, the National Health Service. The fact that such services are available to the whole population is one of the reasons why separate provision does not have to be made for war pensioners.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, will the noble Earl agree that, under the Options for Change review, the armed forces are due to be decreased by about 40,000 by the mid-1990s? Many of those people will have served in the Gulf war, in the Falklands conflict or, indeed, in Northern Ireland. What proposals do Her Majesty's Government have to ensure that the transition from armed service life to civilian life is satisfactorily completed?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, following the examination currently taking place into the future structure of the three services, the reductions which will have to be made will, so far as is possible, be achieved by natural wastage. However, in order to achieve balanced forces over the shortest period possible, inevitably, there may be a need for some redundancies. The size of such redundancies will differ between the services, but in each case they will be voluntary. Only as a last resort will there be compulsory redundancies.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, can the noble Earl tell the House how the Government propose to ensure that those who are made redundant settle back satisfactorily into civilian life? In other words, what facilities will be made for retraining, education, new housing, and so on?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, substantial resettlement programmes are already in place. We are still examining redundancy terms, but we are confident that they will be along the same lines as previous redundancy schemes.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, bearing in mind that several Ministers have no doubt discussed this matter with their senior civil servants, and have failed to 1599 arrive at a satisfactory conclusion, would it be possible for representatives of the Royal British Legion to take part in those discussions and proffer their advice?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, I shall pass the noble Lord's comments to my right honourable friend in another place.