Nuclear Weapon States (Hansard, 11 July 1991)

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, there are five declared nuclear weapon states; that is, states which exploded a nuclear device before 1st January 1967. The nuclear weapon states are the United States, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, France and China.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, can my noble friend say what other states have nuclear facilities? I believe the number to be seven but I should like to know which they are. Is it not now clear that the monitoring and supervision provisions of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, signed by 141 countries, are being flouted? The 1510 most recent example is Iraq, where the facilities turned out to be far more extensive than had hitherto been thought?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, Argentina, Brazil, India, Israel, Pakistan and South Africa have significant nuclear facilities. I am glad to inform the House that I have just heard that South Africa has now joined the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Under Article 3, South Africa now has 18 months to sign up to the International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards. Furthermore, Korea, which, as the House knows, is not recognised as a state by Her Majesty's Government, also has significant nuclear facilities. We hope that the countries that have not yet joined the NPT will do so in the near future. With regard to strengthening the NPT, yes, we certainly wish to strengthen all existing regimes and restrictions of control.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is it not the case that some of the countries which the noble Earl has named as being on the verge of producing nuclear weapons have unstable governments? Does this not pose a serious threat to the world? Can he say whether the Government believe that the Non-Proliferation Treaty is effective; or does a further step need to be taken through the Security Council of the United Nations to probe the possibility of creating a more effective restriction? Finally, can he say what are the prospects of creating a nuclear free zone in the Middle East?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord referred to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and asked whether it needed to be strengthened. We shall seek further accessions to the NPT. We will wish to strengthen the international safeguards administered by the IAEA and we wish to harmonise and improve existing export controls through the Zangger Committee and the Nuclear Suppliers Group. That, we hope, will take care of some of the noble Lord's anxieties.
The noble Lord asked about a nuclear free zone in the Middle East. We would support that in principle, provided all the states therein could agree to it.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, my noble friend did not mention Libya, about which there have been a number of rumours. Can he tell us anything about that?

The Earl of Caithness
No, my Lords, I did not mention Libya. I do not have the information to give your Lordships.

§ Lord Zuckerman
My Lords, in view of the fact that the Iraqi nuclear installations were inspected by the IAEA not many months before her invasion of Kuwait, are the Government satisfied that the IAEA has enough authority and personnel? What exactly are its functions with respect to the NPT? In our case, we opened the majority of our nuclear installations. There are no safeguards so far as I can see—I should like to be reassured that I am wrong—that when the IAEA goes out to inspect a suspected nation it is given real access.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord puts his finger on a very important point. It is true that the IAEA inspected and checked the facilities in Iraq which it was shown. But it has come to light subsequently that the IAEA was certainly not shown all the facilities. A new inspection is taking place which is due to end tomorrow. The IAEA will report back to the Security Council under Security Council Resolution 687. I agree with the noble Lord that it is one of our intentions to strengthen the international safeguards administered by the IAEA.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, can the noble Earl explain why the intensive and prolonged bombing of Iraq's nuclear facilities was not more successful? How do the Government now assess Iraq's capability for producing nuclear weapons? Do the Government feel the time might come when further military action was needed?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, this work is being carried out by the special commission to which I have already made reference. Security Council Resolution 687 provides for the elimination of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. We are waiting for the report about the commission's recent work.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, I hope that the noble Earl will not think this too wide of the Question on the Order Paper, as we are talking about weapons of mass destruction. Can he confirm that there are also 20 nations, many of them third world nations with unstable governments, with a chemical warfare capability?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, that question is a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper, which specifically refers to nuclear weapons.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, can the noble Earl tell the House whether inspection of nuclear facilities also includes the inspection of delivery systems?

The Earl of Caithness
Not without notice, my Lords, but I shall try to find out and write to the noble Lord.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, will my noble friend give wide publicity to these serious facts? That might encourage more of the 151 Labour MPs who are still members of CND to speed up their resignations and follow the example of Mr. Kinnock himself.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, we certainly seek to publicise the information that is available to us. We wish that more of the countries I have mentioned would sign up to the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that this matter is far too grim and serious to become the subject of petty party politics?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, what is absolutely clear is that everyone in the country wishes to know where each party stands.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the UN Security Council aware of the grave possibility of terrorist 1512 organisations managing to get hold of nuclear weapons to threaten governments—even governments with whom we may not agree? Is this not a matter for the Security Council to consider in order to prevent the possibility of a terrorist organisation getting hold of nuclear weapons?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, we certainly wish to prevent any such possibility occurring.