HMS "Endurance": Future (Hansard, 10 July 1991)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (The Earl of Arran)
My Lords, HMS "Endurance" has entered her routine maintenance period on return from the Antarctic. She will have an extensive structural survey during this period and a decision on her deployment this winter will clearly depend on the results of that survey. The requirement for a replacement is being considered and no decision has yet been taken.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, the noble Earl will be aware of the reply given in another place in which doubts were expressed particularly with regard to the metallurgical examination of a plate; yet the vessel had a full and extensive survey before she went south in 1990. What has now happened to cause the doubts on the part of the Government with regard to HMS "Endurance"?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, as I have just said, HMS "Endurance" entered a docking period last month. This is a routine docking period to prepare her for deployment this winter. Since the collision with an iceberg in 1989 it has been normal practice for annual docking to include a detailed survey of the structure and metallurgical condition of the hull. That is now going on. I cannot therefore give an absolute assurance that she will be deployed this winter. HMS "Endurance" is an elderly ship by any standards and is used in very demanding conditions. I am sure your Lordships agree that the safety of the ship and her crew must be paramount and we must therefore await the results of the survey before we can take final decisions.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, in that case why did the Minister send down HMS "Endurance" in the last season: A structural survey has been completed and now there has to be a metallurgical examination of one of the plates. What has happened? Why was it not done be fore? It is very curious in view of the expressed doubts on the part of the Government about the future of HMS "Endurance".

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, when the survey was conducted last year she was found to be seaworthy and that is why she was again sent down to the Antarctic.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, can my noble friend give an assurance that if the repairs on this ship are not effective she will be replaced by a similar ship with a similar role?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I cannot give that assurance because we have to see precisely what is the result of the structural survey. Until then, no decision can be taken.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, in view of the noble Earl's last reply, do the Government agree that we should continue to show the flag in the Antarctic?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, if the noble Lord is particularly referring to the Falklands, the situation has now changed. We have a larger naval presence and also a bigger air strip in that area.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords, can the Minister say whether this shilly-shallying about HMS "Endurance" or her replacement is down to the intervention of the Ministry of Defence, the Foreign Office or the Treasury? Will the Minister bear in mind that the previous Prime Minister would never have allowed such nonsense and apparent wavering towards betraying a vital British interest by not having a replacement for HMS "Endurance"?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, as regards the final decision, obviously there will be close consultation between the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence.

§ The Earl of Radnor
My Lords, apart from the importance of Antarctica and the protocol, and the current condition of HMS "Endurance", does not the Minister feel that within the British Navy there should be just one ship which can withstand the pressure of ice?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I can say to my noble friend that all such considerations, one of which he just outlined, will be taken into consideration.

§ Lord Callaghan of Cardiff
My Lords, does the Minister understand—and do the Government understand—that in saying, first, that he cannot undertake that HMS "Endurance" will return and, secondly, that he can give no undertaking that a ship will replace her, he is repeating the folly that led to the invasion of the Falklands in 1982? Although that is not likely to happen now will the Government please realise that those kinds of words that are used by government spokesmen are studied with great care in Argentina? No inference must be drawn of any sort that the United Kingdom is losing any interest in that part of the Antarctic or in the Falkland Islands. Will the Minister please indicate that the Government are determined to preserve sovereignty in that area?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I understand the strength of feeling in your Lordships' House on this matter. I hope that I have not misled the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan, either in the past or now. I understand the very serious point that he is making. Such a point will obviously be taken into very profound consideration before a decision is taken.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, on the question of the ultimate decision, is the indecision arising from possible doubts on the structure of HMS "Endurance" itself, or the difficulty of getting what is called a modern replacement?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, a very serious structural survey is now being undertaken. As I have already said, no decision can be made until the results of that survey are available.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the answers he gives from the Dispatch Box on behalf of the Government create serious doubt in the minds of your Lordships, and elsewhere? Is it not time that the Government took a firm decision that if the existing ship—and we agree she is old—cannot sail to the Antarctic, a support ship for the British Antarctic Survey is necessary not only for the Antarctic survey but for the reasons given by my noble friend Lord Callaghan of Cardiff?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I hear the noble Lord, Lord Williams, very clearly on this but, as I have just tried to indicate to your Lordships, such possibilities are, and will be, taken very carefully into account before a conclusion is reached.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, can the Minister comment on reports that part of the delay in this decision is caused by the problem of deciding upon which vote HMS "Endurance" should be carried? There are arguments about whether it should be there for the Antarctic survey, for Foreign Office purposes or for Ministry of Defence purposes. If there is anything in this report, is it not time that somebody knocked some heads together?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, obviously a decision as regards the future of HMS "Endurance" will be taken as soon as possible. As I have already said, full consultation will take place between the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands are very keen that either HMS "Endurance" or a ship of similar calibre should be in the South Atlantic?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I am certain that the feelings of the islanders will also be taken into consideration in this matter.

§ Viscount Mountgarret
My Lords, I am not sure that the question of my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter was answered specifically. It required a straightforward "yes" or "no". Either HMS "Endurance" will endure or, if not, will the noble Earl kindly indicate that she will be replaced by a ship that will endure?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I have to make clear to my noble friend that no decision has yet been taken on a replacement.

§ Lord Buxton of Alsa
My Lords, does my noble friend realise that it is now public knowledge that two leading departments of the Government disagree on 1396 this matter, as they did in 1981? Does he agree that it really is necessary to avoid any further embarrassment both nationally and internationally and that it is time for the Prime Minister to intervene and sort out the matter, as ultimately had to happen in 1982?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I have to say to my noble friend, as I have already said many times, that full consultation will take place between the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence.

§ Lord Cochrane of Cults
My Lords, to raise a new point: does the Minister agree that the purpose of HMS "Endurance" and our influence in sovereignty in the Antarctic would be clearer if she were to be described in future as the British Antarctic territory's patrol ship instead of merely as an ice patrol ship?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, that is certainly an interesting suggestion.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl a question to which he may or may not have an answer? Is he aware that a perfectly suitable ship, at a reasonable price—the "Polar Circle"—has been offered and is available? Has the Admiralty or Ministry of Defence considered that possibility? I can give the Minister the details as I have them here. It is a very suitable ship and very much better than HMS "Endurance". What has happened to any consideration of that vessel?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I am aware of that offer, but I can certainly say that the Ministry of Defence has not processed that particular option. However, we are aware that it does exist.