§ 3.24 p.m.
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, before I ask the Question in my name on the Order Paper, I apologise to the Minister because I should have been here on Tuesday when this matter was discussed. However, unfortunately—and I am not making a point about this—I had to have my eyes tested. I went to Moorfields Eye Hospital at quarter past ten and I left at quarter past two.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ Why surplus food is put into intervention stores rather than being used to counter the immediate threat of famine.
§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Trumpington)My Lords, through my dimming eyes, I am so glad that the noble Lord was treated on the same day on which he had trouble. Intervention stocks are being used for famine relief. Most of the food in surplus is unsuitable for use as food aid, although intervention stocks are 1109 drawn on from time to time in response to emergency situations. However, diverting surplus food can provide no lasting solution to the problem of hunger.
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Does she agree with the various bodies, such as Oxfam, FAO, Christian Aid and War on Want, that there are something like 400 million people starving in the world today, and that up to 40 million of those are in Africa? If she agrees with that, does she not think that there should be better organisation? In spite of what the noble Baroness says about stocks, there are some 20 million tonnes of wheat, barley and cereals in stock and a lot of other food which, if it was properly organised, need not go into intervention at all? I make that point because any amount of that food is wasted in intervention. That food could make a considerable contribution to the amount of food which is required by the 400 million people.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, while food aid is an appropriate and necessary measure in the short term, providing food from the West is no lasting solution, as I said before, to the problem of famine in the third world. That view is shared by all the main aid organisations. The noble Lord asked me about intervention. In principle intervention takes surpluses off thy: market at times of glut and puts them back on the market when stocks are short. That is not a new principle. Joseph made his name running the ancient Egyptian intervention agency.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, is not part of the difficulty in implementing the suggestion made by the noble Lord opposite that it is no use whatever exporting stocks of wheat to countries—and they are the countries with the worst shortages—which depend on maize?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, suitability of food is very important. We export wheat to various countries. At any one time some 200,000 tonnes of food aid are in the pipeline en route to developing countries as part of the international community's regular food aid programmes. In effect, that creates a large stock of fresh food which can be and is diverted and drawn on in cases of emergency.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that notwithstanding the information she has been good enough to give the House, there are still considerable amounts of food in intervention storage which are at this time suitable for the purposes outlined in the Question? Is she further aware that storage costs of holding food in intervention are much greater than the amounts which are paid out by means of export restitution? On financial as well as humanitarian grounds, the move out of intervention stocks into those famine-stricken areas is desirable.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, "desirable" is quite the wrong word. When people are starving they need help. To the best of our ability we give it. There is always room for improvement but we have a proud 1110 record. With regard to current stock levels, a table showing the levels of intervention stocks is deposited each month in the Libraries of both Houses. Current UK stocks of wheat, the main commodity used for food aid, total only 1,000 tonnes. I have the other detailed figures and they are on display each month in the Lords Library. I can give the noble Lord the figures for the cost of storage and disposal of surplus food in the European Community. However, I see that we have already taken 28 minutes on Questions and that would take too long.
§ Lord CockfieldMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that there are two serious but different problems? They both require a solution. A solution cannot be found by making an artificial link between two disparate problems.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, yes. I believe in the role of fishing rods, not fish.
§ Lord GallacherMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say whether the UK initiative, along with that of Germany, announced in this House and the other place on 1st July, to improve the co-ordination of disaster relief in the United Nations system will be wide enough in its scope to deal with the whole question of the threat of famine?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, yes. My noble friend Lord Caithness said that on 2nd July.
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, the noble Baroness gave the British figure. I was quoting the EC figure, which indicates that there are 20 million tonnes of wheat in store. The British figure does not come into the picture. It is the EC figure that is important.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I have the figures and I will give them to the noble Lord.