§ Earl Alexander of Tunis asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether there are adequate resources, in terms of both manpower and funds, to combat fraud.
§ Lord ReayMy Lords, within the record levels of financial support and manpower available to the police service since 1979, the police give such priority to combating fraud as chief officers decide is required. The Serious Fraud Office ensures that attention is given to the most serious cases. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and Her Majesty's Paymaster General also have statutory responsibility for fraud cases. We have no evidence to suggest that the investigation and prosecution of fraud is hampered by lack of resources.
Earl Alexander of TunisMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. However, is he aware of a report in the Daily Telegraph last week which stated that annually fraud amounts to £4,000 million or four times the cost of theft, burglary and robbery? Does my noble friend not consider it essential for the future of the financial services industry that the City of London should enjoy greater confidence worldwide?
§ Lord ReayMy Lords, it is difficult to collect firm evidence but notifiable offences of fraud and forgery in England and Wales between October 1989 and October 1990 show an increase of 6 per cent. over the previous year. I agree that it is extremely important for the reputation of the City of London, and hence for the economic health of this country, that London is perceived to be a place where fraud is actively and vigorously pursued.
§ Lord Taylor of GryfeMy Lords, I am sure the City will welcome the assurance of the Minister that adequate resources will be made available to the serious fraud squad. However, is the Minister aware that it is more than four years since the Serious Fraud Office commenced its investigations into the Guinness affair? As a result of those investigations, individuals involved in the affair have been charged but have not yet been tried. Does this not suggest that there is undue delay in pursuing alleged fraud occurrences?
§ Lord ReayMy Lords, I do not believe I should comment on cases that are sub judice. On the question of delay, it takes time to investigate cases and it is more or less axiomatic that the cases which are dealt with by the Serious Fraud Office are time consuming and difficult to investigate.
§ Lord Allen of AbbeydaleMy Lords, if the Government are so keen to deal with fraud, will the Minister think again about the reply he gave to a 872 Question I asked last week and consider introducing a charities Bill at an early date, given that the main purpose of such a Bill would be to deal with fraud in quite an important area?
§ Lord ReayMy Lords, as the noble Lord admits, that matter was the subject of another Question which we dealt with last week.
§ Baroness Ewart-BiggsMy Lords, is the Minister aware that in 1988–89 the number of recorded offences of fraud and forgery in the Metropolitan Police area increased by 8 per cent. while the number of people arrested in connection with such offences fell by 6 per cent? Will the Minister explain that trend?
§ Lord ReayMy Lords, I am aware that the City of London police reported that attempted fraud increased last year. However, they also reported that the amount of money which fraudsters obtained fell while the amount that was recovered rose sharply. Therefore the news is not all bad: the report suggests that some impact may be being made.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the fundamental thrust of the Question is whether there are funds and manpower available to deal with a situation which is bringing grave discredit on the City of London? Are the funds and manpower available, or will they be made available?
§ Lord ReayMy Lords, the Government are most strongly committed to combating fraud. As I said in my original Answer, we have no evidence to suggest that resources are lacking for that purpose.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, will the Minister tell the House how many cases of securities fraud have been reported to prosecuting authorities by the Securities Association and other bodies? How many prosecutions have the prosecuting authorities initiated? And what has been the result?
§ Lord ReayMy Lords, the House will appreciate that that is a broad question which covers the work of several different departments. I do not have the precise figures that the noble Lord asks for. I shall look into the matter and report back to him.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, will the Minister give the House an assurance that the fraud squad is employing an adequate number of trained professional accountants to assist in this vital matter?