HL Deb 16 December 1991 vol 533 cc1013-4

2.43 p.m.

Lord Auckland asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will initiate discussions with those concerned to reduce the cost of air travel between the United Kingdom and the Scandinavian and Nordic countries.

The Minister of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)

My Lords, the European Commission's final aviation package will introduce a liberal fares regime and further open competition on Community routes involving Denmark from 1993. The other countries could also implement this package in 1993, under the recently agreed EEA accord. A separate EC arrangement with Norway and Sweden might be introduced in 1992. We maintain bilateral contacts with the aim of liberalising air services arrangements generally.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that partially satisfactory but generally rather depressing Answer. Is my noble friend aware that for many centuries we have had strong links with Scandinavia and the Nordic countries? Following the Maastricht summit does my noble friend agree that trade with countries such as Finland, Iceland and Sweden, which may well join the Community, is all important? While accepting that governments cannot unilaterally control matters, will the Government pursue talks with their counterparts with much more vigour in order to get something going about this nonsense of being able to fly to Sydney much cheaper, pro rata, than to Helsinki or Stockholm?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am disappointed that my noble friend should have found the Answer depressing in any way. No government in Europe have tried harder than this one to liberalise air travel and to make it more competitive between countries. We appreciate that trade with the Scandinavian countries is important but, as I said in my original Answer, should the EEA agreement go ahead then those countries will be fully involved with the third stage of European liberalisation. If for any reason that does not go ahead we would be willing, and wish, to engage in bilateral discussions with them.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, I must confess that I am not a great expert on air travel. I am glad to note that everybody agrees! Bearing that in mind, can the Minister say why it is that mile for mile the fares on the Atlantic routes are many times lower than those on the European routes?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, on the whole it is because there is more competition on the Atlantic routes. That is what we are trying to get in Europe.

Lord Elton

My Lords, does my noble friend think that the manifest desire of the EFTA group to get closer to the Common Market may provide him and his colleagues with an opportunity to press this matter and relieve the excessive burdens on the number of people who wish to travel regularly to Scandinavia?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

Certainly, my Lords. My noble friend is quite right. If the EEA agreement comes into force that will automatically mean that those countries have to abide by the European Community's liberal aviation policies.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, may I press the Minister to give an answer which he declined to give when a similar issue was raised on 5th December? In the light of the fact that the European Commission had condemned a large number of fares as being excessive—including those relating to British Airways—I asked him whether he agreed with the view of the chairman of British Airways that the market place should be allowed to set its own prices, or whether he agreed that the Commission was right to concentrate on what are, by any standards, excessive fares operating in Europe?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I answered that question recently. It was our own Civil Aviation Authority that had referred these particular fares to the Commission. We were signatories to that agreement and obviously we appreciate Commission competence in this area.