Community Health Councils (Hansard, 4 December 1991)

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, in the absence through sickness of my noble friend Lord Ennals, and with his permission, I beg leave to ask the Government the following Question:
Whether they will review the statutory rights of community health councils and their role in upholding the rights of patients and the public in relation to the National Health Service.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Henley)
My Lords, there are no plans to review the statutory rights of community health councils and they will continue to carry out their important role of representing the interests in the health service of the public in their districts. Perhaps I may take this opportunity to wish the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, a speedy recovery.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Has he read the survey of community health council relations with National Health Service authorities published by the Association of Community Health Councils for England and Wales? Are the Government satisfied with a situation in which one third of CHCs have not been invited to comment on the NHS contract plans; nearly 60 per cent. have been excluded from commenting on the contract specifications; three-quarters suspect that district health authorities hold private meetings at which key decisions are taken; and half have the same view about meetings of the family health service authorities? How does all that square with the patient's right, as set out in the Patient's Charter, to obtain detailed information on local health services from health authorities, GPs or community health councils?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I am aware of the report and I have read it. I am also aware of the conclusions that ACHCEW has drawn regarding the statutory rights of community health councils, but I had great difficulty finding evidence in the paper to support the conclusions that the association puts forward. A third of community health councils did not respond to the questions asked. Of those which did and which described their relationships with district health authorities, some 85 per cent. considered their relationships to be satisfactory or better. The number which considered their relationships with community health councils poor or very poor sank from 6 per cent. to only 1 per cent. The report states on page 20: Almost all CHCs were able to provide examples of joint working with their DHA". The report gives various of those examples. I am confident that it is not necessary to make any changes. 222 We continue to build on the good work that has been done and to see improvements in the way that CHCs work with district health authorities.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that for 14 years I was chairman of a hospital management committee. I therefore know something about the NHS. Is he aware that most people do not even know the address of their so-called community health councils? He talks about the rights of patients. But how do patients get in touch with their CHCs?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I am sure that any patient who wishes to get in touch with his community health council will find the address and telephone number in the telephone book.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, will the Minister consider changing the name of community health councils? There is confusion with community medicine? Would it not be better to call them something like people's health councils?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I take note of the interesting suggestion made by the noble Baroness. We discussed this matter during proceedings on the National Health Service and Community Care Bill. I am satisfied that the name is the right one, but I shall certainly pass on the suggestion to my right honourable friend and the Department of Health.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that both in Leeds where I was a Member of Parliament and in Manchester where I live community health councils are easily accessible, well known and easily identifiable? What is the role of community health councils regarding the new health service trusts that have been set up? Do they have the same approach to those trusts as they have to the area health authorities, bearing in mind their job of protecting the service on behalf of the customer; in other words, the patient? If they do not have the necessary facilities, will the Minister ensure that they are given them as quickly as possible?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I am glad that in both Leeds and Manchester people are aware of the addresses and telephone numbers of their community health councils. As regards the role of CHCs in relation to the trusts, their relationship should principally be with the purchasing authority—the district health authority—but they can visit the NHS trusts if they so wish because that is where the service is provided.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, do community health councils have a mandatory right to visit those trusts or may they do so only at the invitation or say-so of the trust itself?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, community health councils have a right to visit NHS trusts that are managed in their district health authority area where provision is made by the district health authority to purchase services from the trust. If the district purchased from outside its area, the neighbouring community health council would visit the trust.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, will the Minister encourage community health councils to display their addresses and telephone numbers at clinics and doctors' establishments? That is where most patients are likely to find that type of information useful rather than having to search for it in the telephone book.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I am not aware that there is a problem in that respect, but if there is I shall certainly pass on that suggestion to my colleagues at the department and ask them to look into it.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, does the noble Lord recall the access to information Act of a few years ago? Is it still in operation and are community health councils still gaining access to information?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, community health councils have a right to obtain relevant information from local NHS authorities. As regards attendance at meetings, they obviously have a right to attend public meetings. The meetings will be deemed to be public unless the health authorities consider that there are reasons why they should not be public. If a meeting is not public, it is a matter for the district to decide whether to invite the community health councils.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, the Minister said that he had read the survey. Following his answer, can he explain why, according to that survey, 10 per cent. of the CHCs do not receive agendas or background papers for meetings of the DHAs? Will he also confirm that the same figure applies to the meetings of the family health service authorities? They are just not sent the papers.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I was trying to say that most health authorities —some 85 per cent.—considered their relationship with the DHAs to be satisfactory. Obviously some felt that it was not satisfactory. As a result of the document that we published last year, the number who found the service they receive from the district health authorities to be poor or very poor has declined from 6 per cent. to 1 per cent.