Joint Nature Conservation Committee (Hansard, 18 April 1991)

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the committee's main offices are located at present in Monkstone House in Peterborough. The chairman has an office at Battleby in Scotland and small project teams are established elsewhere in Great Britain. The committee's budget for 1991–92 was agreed by the chairmen of the three country councils in discussion with the committee's chairman, Professor Sir Frederick Holliday.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, but she did not answer the second part of my Question as to whether or not the financial allocation is adequate. Is it not the case that the allocations from the country councils to the JNCC have left it six members of staff short of its full complement, including two vital senior posts? Is there not also a problem over the legal standing of the committee in relation to its property transactions which means that it has difficulty in signing leases for accommodation and so on? Can the noble Baroness explain how the Government propose to overcome those difficulties?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, regarding the second point I am not aware of any legal difficulties, but I shall investigate the matter and write to the noble Baroness. Regarding the budget, prior to the setting up of the new councils the budget was £46 million, which represented an increase of 160 per cent. in real terms over the decade. In the year in which we set up the three country councils the budget was increased by a further £20 million, which included all the reorganisation costs. The budget was established on the basis of the full complement which I announced in great detail towards the end of the passage of the Bill 1556 through this House. Therefore, any decision not to fund posts or to hold posts back has not been taken on the basis of there not being funding for the posts.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I hope that the House will forgive me if I say that, as we understand it, with the passing of the Act the Secretary of State has a responsibility to see that the funds allocated by the country councils are sufficient for the needs of the JNCC. The JNCC is apparently six members of staff short of its complement, which means that the funding is not adequate. Can the Minister say whether the Secretary of State intends to fulfil his obligation under the Act to ensure that the funding is adequate?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, there appears to be a misunderstanding. The JNCC agreed a budget with the three chairmen. The budget was funded. The amount of money given by the country councils to the JNCC is positively identified in the funds that the Government give to the country councils. That has been done on the basis of the full complement that I announced in some detail when the Bill was passed in this House.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, am I right in understanding from what the Minister said that the main base of the JNCC is to be in Peterborough? Can the Minister tell the House how that will overcome the difficulties? I understood that the whole point of setting up the Scottish council and the new arrangement was that the JNCC would not be based in Peterborough. We were told that it was because guidance came from Peterborough that the old arrangement was so unpopular and that was why the NCC was to be split into three parts.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, accommodation is a matter for the committee but we understand that there may be a problem of perception. There is no question in practice of the JNCC operating alongside English Nature. I understand that the present accommodation may be a stop-gap arrangement and that the committee will be considering more permanent arrangements for the future.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, can I assure my noble friend that she can relax on this matter because we now have the best of both worlds? We have a separate nature conservancy for each of the three countries and we have co-ordination which enables issues at the national level to be considered by them.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. We always believed that this would be a very good arrangement and that the three countries would be served well. We were sure that the joint interests of the countries nationally and our contribution internationally would be well served by the arrangement with the JNCC.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, if the reason the six senior posts referred to by my noble friend Lady Nicol are not being filled is not lack of funds, can the noble Baroness say why they are not being filled?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the question of why the JNCC has chosen not to fill those vacancies must be 1557 a matter for the JNCC. I can confirm again that the funding for the country councils was established on the basis of the JNCC's bid for moneys for the three country councils. The funding that was given to the JNCC was on the basis of the full complement that I announced in some detail when the Bill was passed in this House.