Children: UN Convention (Hansard, 29 October 1990)

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, the United Kingdom signed the United Nations convention on the rights of the child on 19th April 1990. We intend to ratify the convention as soon as possible.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, that is a disappointing reply, especially when one considers that 54 countries have now ratified the convention, including significant European states such as France, the USSR, Portugal and Spain. Does not the Minister agree that if Britain continues to drag its feet, our isolation within the United Nations will be almost as great as it is at present within the European Community? Is the Minister further aware that we need to ratify the convention urgently as the convention has provided that at the beginning of next year a 10-member committee will be set up? However, only countries that have ratified the convention can take part in the selection process. Will the Minister assure the House that Britain will ratify the convention before that time in order to take part in that important procedure?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Baroness is disappointed with my reply. I can assure her that we are not dragging our feet over this issue. We have to consider carefully whether our domestic legislation is in harmony with the text of the convention. This is a matter which takes some time. It covers important, wide-ranging and complex areas of legislation which involve no fewer than nine government departments. As I have said, although this process may take some time, we shall ratify as soon as it is completed.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is there any truth in the report that the reason why the Government have not yet ratified the convention is because they oppose Articles 9 and 10 of the convention which lay down that children are not to be separated from their families? The articles further state that, if children are separated from their families, they should be reunited humanely. Does the Minister agree that that concept should not pose a difficulty? It is a point of compassion which I should have thought the Government would support at once. Will the Minister confirm that about 40,000 children are dying 1688 every day? Will the Minister further confirm that the Government's overseas aid will be increased next year and targeted to the needs of children?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, the final point made by the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition with regard to our aid programme for next year is a different issue. I do not have figures with me on that point. We may have to enter a reservation to protect the workings of our nationality and immigration laws; but this should in no way stand in the way of ratification. We shall submit the convention to Parliament for ratification once we have completed the process of scrutinising the compatibility of our legislation with the terms of the convention.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I apologise for intervening again, but I respectfully suggest that the Minister has not dealt with the point I made about Articles 9 and 10. Do these form an obstacle to the Government's ratification of the convention?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, as I said, we may have to enter reservations. That is a matter which is under consideration at the present time. No final decisions have yet been taken.

§ Lord Bridges
My Lords, I recognise the need for proper scrutiny of the convention by Her Majesty's Government before ratification. However, would it not be possible to accelerate these processes somewhat considering that it is now nearly one year since the convention was opened for signature in the United Nations? Will the Government not support the Prime Minister in her unanimous approval as one of the 71 heads of state and government who approved the recent plan of action at the children's summit in New York which I witnessed as a representative of the British national committee of UNICEF?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I recognise the noble Lord's standing in this matter. The scrutiny that is required in this case constitutes a long and time consuming process. However, there is a further reason why the scrutiny takes a certain length of time in our case. We have to discover the attitudes of the 13 dependent territories to ascertain whether they wish to ratify the convention and whether they wish to enter reservations.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, my noble friend the Leader of the Opposition asked a specific question about Articles 9 and 10. The Minister did not answer the question in regard to those articles. If he is unaware of what the articles contain, the House will have its usual sympathy if he frankly admits to that fact.

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I answered that question. There are areas where we are considering whether or not to enter reservations. We have not yet made any final decisions.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, is not part of the problem the fact that Articles 9 and 10 may well involve a substantial derogation from extant case law on immigration?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, as I said, we may have to make a reservation to protect the workings of our nationality and immigration laws. However, I can 1689 assure the House that that will not affect the existing rights of children to join their parents in the United Kingdom.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I apologise for intervening again. I pressed the point, as did my noble friend, because of a case which came to my attention of Kurdish parents in this country who applied for their child, who was seriously ill in Turkey, to join them here. Because of delays inherent in the system, of which the noble Lord is aware, the child was not allowed to come to this country and died. Does he agree that that is not in the tradition of governments in this country?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I can only reassure the noble Lord and the House that the Government will not be responsible for any unreasonable or unnecessary delay in the ratification of the convention.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, can the Minister give the House and the people of this country an indication as to when the final decision will be made so that the position will be clear?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I can only repeat that once the process of scrutinising our legislation and assessing its compatibility with the convention is complete and once we have concluded our consultations with the dependent territories, we shall introduce the convention to Parliament for ratification.

§ Lord Henderson of Brompton
My Lords, can the noble Lord assure me that one of the reasons why the Government appear to be dragging their feet is not because they do not agree with Article 19, which deals with the protection of the child from all forms of physical or mental violence? I hope that that is not the case and that the noble Lord can give me that assurance.

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord and the House once again that we are not dragging our feet in this matter. Although two of our colleagues in the European Community—Portugal and France —have ratified the convention they did so only within the last two months, and it is unreasonable to insist that we are dragging our feet.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, can the Minister give more information in respect of some of the articles of the convention which, as the noble Lord said, we signed in April? Will the Government restore income support for 16 and 17 year-olds to a level which will enable those young people to secure independent accommodation, where necessary, in line with Articles 26 and 27?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, that is another question. However, I am quite happy to look into the matter and to write to the noble Baroness.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, in fairness to the noble Lord, Lord Henderson, and the House, will the noble Lord now reply to the question that was put to him by the noble Lord, Lord Henderson?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I understand that I can give the noble Lord the assurance that he sought.