AS AN AMENDMENT TO COMMONS AMENDMENT NO. 122 (Hansard, 25 October 1990)

Lord McCloskey
My Lords, Amendment No. 122E seeks to leave out lines 55 to 57 in the new clause before Clause 24. Your Lordships will see that it is printed on page 18 of the Marshalled List. The effect of taking out lines 55 to 57 inclusive is to take out the reference to the criminal proceedings in the High Court of Justiciary.
I confess that the amendment is a last desperate attempt to persuade the Government to explain to the House, or indeed to Parliament, because it was not explained to the other place, who other than lawyers want rights of audience in criminal jury trials in Scotland, and who other than lawyers are expected in the future to want or to be granted rights of audience in criminal jury trials in Scotland.
I studied with care all the proceedings in another place—much of which was not profitable—and I read the entire Committee and Report stages proceedings. The Government, when asked who those persons were who fell under Clause 23, said that they were possibly patent agents, social workers, adoption agencies and something called Murgatroyd & Company, who had expressed an interest in the matter. Who, if any, of those persons are seeking the right to represent other persons in the High Court of Justiciary, whether or not as a court of first instance? In other words, who is the provision for in Scotland?
It is a simple question. I have asked it many times. It has never been answered. It was not answered in another place, and I believe the House should have an answer to it now.
Moved, That Amendment No. 122E, as an amendment to Commons Amendment No. 122, be agreed to.—(Lord McCluskey.)

§ Lord Fraser of Carmyllie
My Lords, the noble and learned Lord has been insistent on this point and has asked the question not once or twice but many times. As I indicated in dealing with matters at the outset, when I assumed we would deal with these amendments together, the specific provision he now seeks to delete is in precisely the same form as it was when it left this House, albeit in another clause.
With the greatest respect to the noble and learned Lord, however much he may be dissatisfied this is not an appropriate way in which to reopen something which we have already considered in detail.

§ Lord McCluskey
My Lords, that means that the Lord Advocate, when given a final opportunity to do so, will not answer my question. I can do nothing more. I have asked the question many times. I believe the answer is that nobody who is not a lawyer wants to appear in a criminal trial in Scotland. Neither the patent agents, nor Murgatroyd & Company, nor social workers, nor adoption agencies sought such a right. No one in Scotland said it is necessary. No one wants it. It is in the Scottish Bill only because it is in the English Bill. The noble and learned Lord the Lord 1587 Advocate declines to answer the question. I note that with some sadness, and with that sadness beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment No. 122E, as an amendment to Commons Amendment No. 122, withdrawn.