Energy Funding (Hansard, 23 October 1990)

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the Government provide no funds directly to operators of generating capacity contracted for under the non-fossil fuel obligation. There are powers in the Electricity Act to contribute to the costs of reprocessing and waste management of nuclear fuel and decommissioning of nuclear plant, but no payments have been made or are presently expected. The extra costs incurred by regional electricity companies in meeting the NFFO are recouped from all electricity suppliers through the fossil fuel levy. In 1245 1989–90, the Government spent around £132 million on civil nuclear R&D and over £17 million on renewables R&D.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I welcome the Minister to the Front Bench. However, I express some regret that my former combatant who is sitting near the Woolsack appears to have left the fray. The noble Lord has missed the point of my Question. I asked him directly to separate from the figures with which he has been supplied the research and development money provided by the Government for nuclear energy and that provided for renewables such as wind, wave and thermal power, and the other forms of renewables which the Government have admitted are important in order to provide a variety of generating sources for electricity.

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the exact figures appear on a long list. I shall have to write to the noble Lord on that point. I should have thanked the noble Lord at the beginning of my remarks for his welcoming comments. This is a complicated schedule. If the noble Lord wants those details, I shall have to write to him.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, can the Minister not give the simple breakdown of what R&D money is provided for nuclear energy and what is provided for renewable energy?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I believe I have given the figures. I certainly would need notice before providing any more. I said that some £132 million was available for nuclear research and development and £17 million for the research and development of renewables.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, does the Minister recognise that under the terms of the Electricity Act 1989 the assets of the main fossil fuel generators, National Power and PowerGen, were written down to make way for privatisation? Does he also accept that renewable energy is, by its very nature, capital intensive? In view of those two facts, which I believe the Government have admitted, is it not the case that in the future it will be extremely difficult for renewable energy to compete with fossil fuels?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I do not think that that will be the case. Under the NFFO these matters are recognised. No suggestion has been made to us that renewable forms of energy will have a difficult time.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, does my noble friend not recognise that the scope for renewables is widely exaggerated? Wind power requires an enormous amount of space, geo-thermal power has only two or three sites available and wave power is still a long way off.

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for those comments. At no time in the foreseeable future will renewables other than nuclear amount to more than 3 per cent. of total generation.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, does the noble Lord recognise that renewables are certainly expensive and difficult to start up, but that nuclear power is 1246 almost impossible to stop? On balance, it would be better to spend the money on starting up more forms of energy than on starting up a form of energy which cannot be stopped and is extremely damaging to the environment.

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I do not agree with those comments. I do not think that nuclear power is extremely damaging to the environment. The Government's policy is to have a broad spread.

§ Lord Stanley of Alderley
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, compared with other countries in the European Community, we are a long way behind in the consideration of renewables?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I do not think that that is the case. We have information that the programme in this country is well respected throughout the world.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, will the noble Lord tell his noble friend behind him that the scope for renewables, far from being exaggerated, has been greatly underplayed, not least because renewables have been under the thumb of the atomic energy lobby? I know that the noble Lord has not had time to look at the matter that I am about to refer to in detail. However, will he look at what happened to the research in this country on wave energy that was carried out in 1982 but was then abandoned and taken up successfully by other countries? Will the Minister look particularly at the work of Professor Salter of Edinburgh University which has been in cold storage in this country for eight years and yet has been successfully employed elsewhere? Finally, will the Minister look at the figures he has given and ask himself, and perhaps some of his noble, honourable and right honourable friends, whether this country is moving towards a bright and green future when it spends £132 million on research and development in the nuclear field every year and only £17 million on research into renewables?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, regarding wave power, the Government are updating their earlier wave studies and a review is in hand to examine the prospects for wave energy in the United Kingdom across the whole range, from shoreline to large offshore devices. All interested parties are being consulted, including Professor Salter. The study is due for completion next year.
As to renewables in general, there is no reason why non-fossil fuels other than nuclear should be linked with nuclear. Each technology requires a different level of investment depending on the technology itself and the stage it has reached. Given the speed at which new technologies can develop in the best circumstances it is possible to argue that the level of funding of research and development on renewables is at or near the optimum. I refer the noble Lord to Energy Paper 55 on the subject of renewables.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that there is a distinction to be drawn between nuclear power, which is capable of providing 1247 a base load day and night, and wind and wave power, which will depend on the weather and whose delivery will be variable?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, my noble friend makes an interesting point.