§ 7.7 p.m.
§ Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.
This is a fairly standard Bill of this nature containing the normal provisions. I declare an interest in the Bill, first, as one who has been associated for several years with the company promoting the Bill —an interest which is well known in the Bristol area —and, secondly, as a resident of Bristol. I have lived 650 in Bristol since 1941 and seen over the years the constant increase in traffic congestion and frustration for travellers. It is to ease that situation that the Bill is put forward.
The county of Avon came into being in 1974 as a result of the reorganisation of local government. With a population approaching 1 million, the major urban areas are Bath, Bristol and Weston-super-Mare. Although Bristol's population is decreasing, there has been substantial growth in other parts of the county and more is planned, particularly north and north-east of Bristol and east of Weston-super-Mare.
Land use transportation studies in the 1970s highlighted the high level of car availability and usage. Taking figures from the 1981 census shows that among urban areas with a population of over 500,000 the greater Bristol area has the highest car availability in Great Britain at 0.82 cars per household and the highest proportion of households—over 63 per cent. —having at least one car available. Clearly, since 1981 those figures have increased.
At the end of 1988 the number of cars and light vans registered in Avon was 378 per 1,000 population or 11 per cent. above the level in Great Britain as a whole. Even more important, the figures show that some 56 per cent. of the residents of the Bristol urban area travel to work by car. Again, that figure is the highest in the country among the larger cities.
The other side of that picture is that in 1981 only 23 per cent. of all trips to work in central Bristol were made by bus or train. The county remains a strongly developing area and the pressures upon the Bristol transport network grow inexorably. In 1989 alone in that area 4,200 new houses were completed, as were 100,000 square metres of office space.
The company promoting the Bill was formed in 1986 with the ambition to propose a light rail public transport system for Avon County. Initial plans were drawn up on which a feasibility study was carried out and completed in July 1987. The company lodged its first Bill in Parliament in November 1987 for the route from Portishead to Bristol city centre. Royal Assent was given in May 1989. In November 1989 two further Bills were lodged, one for the Bristol city centre, which we are discussing this evening, and one for the route from Temple Meads to Bradley Stoke and Yate. The three Bills will link up to form the first phase of a comprehensive system.
The Bristol city centre Bill, involving street running, required consent to lodge the Bill from the county council and Bristol City Council. Avon County Council as the highway authority gave consent in January of this year. After substantial negotiations with Bristol City Council, consent was given in June of this year. The Avon LRT Bill 1989 for the route to Bradley Stoke and Yate also had a section of street running, but consent to lodge was obtained and the Bill has received its Second Reading in your Lordships' House.
The company has formed a joint venture with the county council which was finalised in August this year. 651 Three of the district councils have become countersignatories to the joint venture—namely, Northavon, Woodspring and Wansdyke. Bath City Council is considering the possibility of also becoming a signatory.
The company has entered into a similar agreement with Bristol City Council. Each agreement sets out a method for formulating decisions in the design and implementation of the project. Obviously the agreements do not preclude the councils from petitioning against current or future Bills, but there is a general spirit of co-operation.
The company also finalised in March of this year an agreement with Badgerline. Badgerline is a bus company which operates 95 per cent. of the bus services in the area. This will enable the provision of a fully integrated public transport system.
The company has completed environmental assessments for the two current Bills, each of which is currently the subject of public consultation. It has also completed all the elements necessary for an application for Section 56 Department of Transport grant. These documents have been submitted to the department and negotiations are under way. It is hoped that a full application will be made in the new year.
The first three Bills provide a route of 52 kilometres —I am afraid that it is a sign of the times that I use the metric measure without comment on it—with an estimated ridership of 64,000 journeys per day at the end of the first year of operation, programmed to be in 1995. Such figures will have a considerable impact on the increasing traffic congestion in and around the city. The present level of car engine fumes has created unacceptable levels of air pollution, particularly during the past two summers.
All being well, the company plans further routes in the future, particularly a south Bristol route linking the large post-war housing estates of my former constituency with the city centre and creating new job opportunities. There is also the inclusion of the current British Rail routes to Avonmouth, a link to Bath and a service within Bath itself. The company has identified the need and offered a solution. Regarded by many as a pipe-dream at first, the project now has widespread support. The question most frequently asked is how soon the system can be running. The benefits, as illustrated on the grant application, will be substantial in their effect on traffic congestion, safety, improved environment and opportunities for regeneration and new jobs. The best estimate of the number of jobs which will be created by the system is some 2,700, which will be a very welcome addition to Bristol's opportunities.
Much of the route follows old and disused railway lines, making use of disused infrastructure, which is illustrated by the viability and the wide service to be provided. Particular attention will be paid to the needs of the elderly and disabled by the use of low-bedded vehicles and kerb-side stops in the city centre and shopping centres.
652 The Bill is an essential link in an imaginative plan to alleviate traffic problems in Bristol and Avon. I ask your Lordships to give it a fair wind.
Moved, That the Bill be now read a second time. —(Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe.)
§ 7.14 p.m.
§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, I am sure the House will wish to thank my noble friend Lord Cocks for the succinct and clear way in which he presented this Bill. I am sure that the House will be impressed also by the arguments which he used in favour of it. I did my best to convert 52 kilometres into miles because I only understand miles. I believe that it is about 32.5 miles. Therefore, I now know exactly the proposed length of route. I hope that has helped my noble friend and I believe it will be the only time I shall help him during my speech. Nevertheless, I hope that I have helped him on that matter.
The importance of the Bill was drawn to my attention by Mr. Leonard, who represents, among others, the Eastern Community Association. At first I was reluctant to become involved with the Bill, which concerns the interests, amenities and environment of the city of Bristol and its environs and of course the citizens of that area and which after proper and due debate should be decided by them. That is still my view. Therefore, I shall not go deeply into the merits of the Bill itself. In any event the opportunity for that will arise in another place when they can be discussed by people who are properly elected by the citizens of Bristol and other constituencies.
However, I became concerned at the manner in which the consent of the local authority had been obtained. It is required under Standing Order 25 before a tramway or light railway Bill can be introduced. My anxiety remains. Indeed it became deeper when I read the report of the examiners and their conclusions. Perhaps it would be as well if I quoted from the report about the sequence of events in Bristol City Council referred to by my noble friend.
I can do no better than quote from paragraphs 6 and 9 of the report. Page 2 is headed:The sequence of events in Bristol City Council".Paragraph 6 states:The City Council met on 12th December 1989 and considered a report from their Planning and Traffic Committee. The recommendation of that Committee was that `the Council invoke Standing Order 25 of both Houses of Parliament' in respect of the Bill. The meaning of the words `invoke Standing Order 25' in this context was unclear to the Examiners but in the course of their hearing the parties agreed that it could be interpreted as meaning 'refused to give consent to the Bill".Paragraph 7 goes on to state:At the next meeting of the City Council on 9th January 1990 a motion to rescind the decision about the Bill taken in December was proposed by Councillor Abraham. Under the City Council's Standing Order 18 a motion to rescind a resolution duly passed by the Council may not be brought forward within six months. Standing Order 18(2) similarly provides that when a motion has been rejected by the Council, the same motion may not be brought forward within six months. There are only two exceptions to these prohibitions. The first is when notice of a motion to rescind or to bring the same motion forward is given at or immediately after the meeting at which the original motion was passed or rejected. 653 The motion on 9th January satisfied that condition but was rejected. The second is the case of a motion brought forward to the Council on the report of a Committee, which does not apply in the present case".Paragraph 8 states:At their annual general meeting on 15th May the City Council considered in the normal way a report from their Policy and Resources Committee proposing the appointment and terms of reference of the Council's various committees for the new Council year. At that meeting an amendment was agreed to alter the membership of certain committees and to appoint an additional committee, namely the ATA Committee, which was 'to have full powers to act with regard to the granting of any consent under Standing Order 25".Paragraph 9 states:The ATA Committee met on 25th May and resolved that once the City Clerk had entered an agreement on certain matters with the Promoters he be authorised to give consent under Standing Order 25. Such agreement was duly reached and a certificate of consent was signed by the City Clerk and deposited in Parliament on 1st June".That is the history of the matter. In paragraph 16 the examiners say:If the Committee decide that the certificate should be taken as conclusive, then the Standing Orders will have been complied with in this case. If, however, the Committee decide that the Examiners can properly go behind such a certificate in a case where it is challenged by a memorialist, then in the light of the facts set out earlier in this report difficult questions arise as to whether consent was truly given. The Examiners were not persuaded that there was any irregularity in the constitution of the ATA Committee, or that the meeting on 25th May was improperly convened. On the other hand, they found considerable force in the argument that as both parties accepted that the Council's Standing Order 18 precluded the full Council from giving consent under Standing Order 25 of both Houses either at the time when they established the ATA Committee or at the time when the ATA Committee decided to give consent, it therefore followed that the ATA Committee themselves could not validly take such a decision on 25th May".That was the examiners' report. For reasons given in its report the standing order committee ruled that Standing Order 25 had been complied with through the certificate signed by the city clerk and therefore that the Bill could proceed. I cannot quarrel with the decision of the standing orders committee, a decision that it came to in accordance with its own powers and limitations. However, it is my view that Bristol City Council on 15th May 1990 could not give to the ATA Committee the power to rescind a decision of the whole council taken less than six months earlier. Therefore even if it was the wish of the council to rescind its previous decision not to grant consent under Standing Order 25—and that is doubtful—it did not have the power to do so under its own standing orders. In those circumstances any reasonable person would conclude that the ATA Committee had no power to instruct the city clerk to grant a certificate under Standing Order 25.
My view is that the decision of the ATA Committee is of doubtful legality and certainly of dubious morality. The consent of Bristol City Council was railroaded through not on the basis of democratic decision-making on behalf of the citizens of Bristol but by means of a disreputable device to meet the needs and timetable of a private organisation.
654 I understand that light railway transit Bills, although they may be privately promoted, are usually sponsored by the local authorities after agreement has been reached regarding routes and other matters, including the extent to which public finance may be required. That is especially so if local charge payers are to be asked to contribute. In the case of this Bill no such agreement was reached. Indeed, it could not have been reached as the promoters did not publish their report on the six routes until 14th August 1990. Bristol City Council, as I understand it, far from sponsoring the Bill is petitioning against it on a number of grounds, one of which is that the proposed LRT system has been devised in complete isolation from any transport policies of Bristol City Council and other authorities.
Due to the lack of agreement on routes and finance, and due to the widespread view apparently held in Bristol that this Bill is not about the improvement of transportation in Bristol and its environment but rather about profits from property development—some of which may derive from the compulsory purchase of other people's property under this Bill —in my view it is of doubtful wisdom on the part of the promoters to proceed with the Bill as it stands.
Again in my view—it is a personal view—it would be far better to withdraw it at this stage and seek proper agreement with and unimpaired consent from Bristol City Council. The company is unlikely to take advice from me, but I must say this. As it stands the Bill, with its history, was tainted from the start due to the dubious manner in which consent under Standing Order 25 was obtained. It will remain tainted and therefore suspect during the whole of its passage through Parliament and thereafter.
§ 7.27 p.m.
§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, it has been suggested that the noble Lord, Lord Underhill, and I should speak before the Lord Chairman of Committees in this debate as there is no government speaker. That appears to be a wise move in that he can doubtless reply at the end of the debate, before the noble Lord, Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe, sums up, to any detailed points we wish to make.
Like the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, was approached by the same person and had a considerable briefing from that source. Like the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, I was disturbed by what I read. Again, when I read the report from the examiners which was sent to me, like the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, I wondered what was going on with Standing Order 25 consent.
When I read the report in more detail I wondered whether the argument by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, and the petitioners did not rest on the interpretation of paragraph 6 on page 2, read to us by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. The examiner there said,The meaning of the words 'invoke Standing Order 25' in this context was unclear to the Examiners but in the course of their hearing the parties agreed that it could be interpreted as meaning 'refuse to give consent to the Bill"'.655 It could be interpreted as the opposite. That is why I am confused. If the meaning was the opposite, the whole case crumbles. That is the point on which I seek guidance.
The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, makes a persuasive case against property developers. I am no friend of property developers of one sort or another; they tend to underdevelop people while developing their property. The purpose of a light rail transport system of one sort or another should be an improvement in the standard of living for citizens of the great city of Bristol and its environs.
I make the point immediately that I am a great supporter of LRT schemes. I am delighted to know that my old city of Manchester has advanced with its plans and that such schemes are being brought into existence in a number of our major cities. I see that as a way forward and a means of reducing congestion, reducing air pollution and getting people in our major cities out of their cars and on to an effective public transport system. Therefore, in principle I am very much in favour of these schemes and I do not always see them necessarily as being the work of property developers.
Of course, property developers need to be watched like hawks. That is why the procedure of going through a Select Committee exists. The petitioners have an opportunity to bring forward petitions and noble Lords who sit on those committees in a quasi-judicial capacity have a duty to ensure that petitioners are properly heard and dealt with. Only a moment or two before I came into this Chamber I received a message from the leader of my party on the Bristol City Council saying that the members of my party fully support this scheme. I understand that all party leaders on Bristol City Council support the scheme. Therefore, I begin to wonder whether there has pot been a misinterpretation or even some misinformation in the lead-up to this debate. I hope that that is not the case but I am now looking again with a slightly different eye at the interpretation which the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, properly and understandably put before your Lordships. It will be interesting to hear from the Chairman of Committees.
I hope that the difficulties that have been outlined can be overcome. At the end of the day, it is important to have a light rail transport system for Bristol which enables the citizens to go about their daily lives in a way that does not penalise the environment, cyclists or pedestrians. I understand that consultations are continuing and that there is to be another round of consultations regarding the route and where it impinges on cycle tracks. Clearly that is greatly to be encouraged. I await with interest to hear what is said in reply to the points raised.
§ 7.33 p.m.
§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, the House is grateful to my noble friend Lord Cocks for outlining and explaining the purpose of the Bill and also to my noble friend Lord Stoddart, supported by the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, for the manner in which they put their objections to the way the Bill has been dealt with. It is 656 not my intention to refer to Standing Order 25, to the report of the Examiners of Petitions or to the subsequent meeting of the Standing Orders Committee. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff. It is fortunate that the Chairman of Committees will be putting forward the views of the committee.
I understand that there are a number of petitions against the Bill. My noble friend Lord Stoddart said that members of the city council may be among the petitioners, in which case their views should be heard properly before the Select Committee. No one has approached me from the city council or from the county council. I have read the Hansard reports of proceedings in the other place when it dealt with the Bill which is now the 1989 Act. The problems which my noble friend Lord Cocks outlined as the reasons for the Bill—the congestion and so on—were clearly given during the Second Reading debate of what is now the 1989 Act. As my noble friend rightly said, the Bill in no way proposes the construction of a new railway. The intention is mainly to convert or to reopen lengths of rail which have not been used since 1931. Noble Lords will note what my noble friend Lord Cocks said about congestion in the city. There is no argument about that or other problems associated with traffic conditions in Bristol.
The 1989 Bill is now an Act. In other words, there has been agreement that there should be an Avon light railway transport system. Two further Bills are now before Parliament of which the Bill before us is one. I want to deal mainly with the general principle of why a Bill for a light rail transport system in the area should be considered and leave the arguments that have been raised on the technicalities of the standing orders to be dealt with by the Chairman of Committees.
In addition to the points made by my noble friend Lord Cocks, I understand that at the time the 1989 Bill was being considered a poll was undertaken by MORI, respectable and trustworthy pollsters who have carried out a lot of polling work for the Labour Party at different times. So they must be good! At that time, 85 per cent. of the persons interviewed said they wanted a light rail transport system introduced in the area. That factor must be taken into consideration.
I am sure we all appreciate, too, that light rail transit systems are environmentally friendly. I was pleased to see a copy of a draft report of an environmental assessment issued in September for consultation dealing with the whole question of the environment on two of the routes. That report covers 160 pages and is now open to public consultation.
Noble Lords should understand the general principle of light rail systems. The noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, said that Manchester has had such a system approved, as has Sheffield. A Bill has been tabled in Parliament for the West Midlands metro system. Light rail transit systems are not new in this country.
My own party, on page 15 of its transport policy states:Labour will also encourage public and private collaboration"—657 note that, public and private—in rapid transit systems which provide attractive, modern, clean and fast movement through cities. Now common in Western Europe, 11 schemes are already being considered in British cities. But their development has been hindered by the narrowness of the government's financial approach".Therefore, the general principle of light rail transit systems is welcomed by my party.
I am prepared to accept that it would have been better if, right at the outset, public transport as such had been involved in the Avon transit system. That is where there was success in the metropolitan county areas. In the conurbations of Sheffield, Manchester and the West Midlands there is a public transport authority and a public transport executive who would be closely involved. I regret that that has not happened in this case because of the nature of the area.
I regret also that there is no government speaker to tell the House what might be the financial position, particularly on the Section 56 grants to which the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, referred and also on the possibility of EC grants for this type of scheme. Therefore, we shall be considering a Second Reading without the advantage of the views of the Government on the financial aspects. That is very important. When the 1989 Bill, which is now an Act, was before the other place the opposition spokesman took the same view as the one I have just expressed—that is to say, it would have been preferable if the project had been included in an integrated and co-ordinated transport system in Bristol. Nevertheless, he made it quite clear that he had received an assurance from the ATA, which was the firm concerned with the project, of its intention to introduce a public transport system to be integrated with the bus services, which would allow a co-ordinated interchange, through-ticketing and other related services.
Therefore, we are in a position to hear what the noble Lord the Chairman of Committees has to say, and for the petitioners, I hope, to put their case before the Select Committee. That is why I believe that the Bill should be given a Second Reading so that the petitioners can have the advantage of putting their case before the Select Committee. The principle of a light transport system is one which we heartily support. When I say "we" I simply point out that, as with all Private Bills, I am speaking personally in this matter. I hope that the Bill will be given a Second Reading and that a full opportunity will be given for the matters that have been raised by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, and the general question of the scheme to be brought before the Select Committee.
§ 7.41 p.m.
§ The Chairman of Committees (Lord Aberdare)
My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, and the noble Lord, Lord Underhill, for allowing me to come in rather later in the debate. I perhaps can bring them some reassurance. I may even bring some small reassurance to the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, though I rather doubt it. I cannot engage in discussion on the merits of the Bill, and noble Lords would not expect me to do that. I 658 remind your Lordships that if you give the Bill a Second Reading you will not be approving the principle of the Bill, but simply permitting it to be considered by a Select Committee which will take into account both the principle of the Bill and the more detailed matters raised in the petitions which have already been deposited.
If your Lordships give the Bill a Second Reading it will go to a Select Committee. The intention is that the committee should consider both the Bill that is under consideration this evening, the Bristol City Centre Bill, and the other Avon Light Transit Bill mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Cocks, which has already received a Second Reading. I can tell the noble Lord, Lord Underhill, that there are no fewer than 75 petitions deposited against these two Bills. There are 20 against the city centre Bill and 55 against the second Bill, including, in the first case, petitions from the city council and the county council. So clearly the Select Committee is going to be very busy and it is likely to sit for a number of weeks.
In the usual way, the committee will hear arguments from the promoters and the petitioners and it will take decisions on the Bill in the light of the arguments and the evidence put before it. As to the timing of the Select Committee, your Lordships will know that for a Private Bill to continue in the next Session of Parliament this House must approve an appropriate Motion known as a carry-over Motion. In the case of a Bill introduced in this House such a Motion also requires the subsequent consent of another place. I shall be tabling carry-over Motions in respect of both Avon Bills very shortly. However, I believe that your Lordships will agree that, in the circumstances, it would be inappropriate to arrange for an early Select Committee.
Accordingly, I have agreed on a provisional basis that arrangements should be made for a Select Committee to sit in January next year when the House resumes after the Christmas Recess. These arrangements can only be confirmed when the Bill is reintroduced in the new Session.
I now wish to turn to the preliminary proceedings on the Bill which were particularly mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon—that is to say, the proceedings before the examiners and before the standing orders committee. I do not think I need describe the background at any great length. The special report of the examiners covered the ground in some detail. Indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, quoted extensively from their report. I thought it right to make available in the Printed Paper Office copies both of that report and, most importantly, of the subsequent decision of the standing orders committee.
Very briefly, in December last year Bristol City Council refused to give its consent to the introduction of a city centre Bill. That meant that the promoters of the Bill were unable to prove before the examiners that they had complied with this House's Private Business Standing Order 25, which in the case of a tramway Bill requires the consent of the local authority of the area through which the proposed tramway is to be constructed.
659 Subsequently, in June this year, the promoters deposited in Parliament a certificate signed by the city clerk that the council had then given its consent to the Bill as required by Standing Order 25. Accordingly, the matter again came before the examiners. The validity of the council's decision to give consent was challenged by a number of memorialists. As they are entitled to do under the standing orders, the examiners referred to the standing orders committee by means of a special report the question of whether a certificate of consent duly signed by an authorised officer of a local authority was conclusive of the question of consent for the purposes of Standing Order 25. Those were the matter s raised by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart.
The standing orders committee met in July and heard submissions from both the promoters and representatives of the memorialists. It gave the matter the most careful consideration and came to a unanimous decision. It held that a certificate of consent is not conclusive for all purposes. For example, the examiners could properly go behind such a certificate where it was alleged to be a forgery or obtained by fraud or where that consent had already been held to be invalid in legal proceedings. But the committee considered that only in such exceptional circumstances, which did not apply in the present case, should the examiners go behind the certificate.
The committee went on to say that it was doubtful whether the specific arguments used by the memorialists to question the validity of the certificate were well-founded. However, in any event there were arguments involving important questions of law and of the interpretation and the effect of the council's standing orders. The proper forum for the resolution of such questions was, in the view of the committee, the courts and not the examiners. That is the committee's answer to the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon. I hope that they will reassure both the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, and the noble Lord, Lord Underhill.
The committee concluded that the certificate must accordingly be treated as conclusive and determined that standing orders had been complied with. Therefore, the Bill was read a first time on 13th July. I hope the House will agree that it should now proceed in the normal way.
§ Lard Cocks of Hartcliffe
My Lords, I should like to thank all colleagues who have taken part in this short debate. I thank in particular the noble Lord, Lord Underhill, for pointing out that the light rail system is a very popular concept now and that all parties support it. I also thank him for stating that the provision of both private and public funds in the construction of one of these systems is now accepted by the Labour Party in its recent policy statement. While at one time there was very strong resistance to that policy, it is now recognised that with the limited resources available governments, in the light of the overwhelming demands made on them, say that the involvement of private capital is very much to be desired.
I thank also the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, for his remarks and general support and for reporting to this 660 House the support of his party on Bristol City Council. I know that both my own party and the party opposite are extremely keen that this measure should proceed. The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, became a little pejorative towards the end of his remarks. I remind him that the question of land enhancement was the basis on which the initial railway systems of this country were built in the the middle of the last century. I declare an interest because my mother's father was a porter on the old Southern Railway.
I am extremely grateful to the Chairman of Committees for guiding the House through the labyrinthine procedure matters. As a member of the usual channels I must say that having Members in both Houses who are prepared to concentrate on such detailed matters is of great service to us all. I am grateful to the noble Lord for his offices in respect of the Bill in addition to the other contributions that he makes to our proceedings.
I appreciate the intellectual honesty and integrity of my noble friend Lord Stoddart. However, should your Lordships be good enough to give the Bill a Second Reading tonight I believe that when it is reported tomorrow morning on local radio the motorists who will be queuing to drive into the centre of Bristol on the M32, Gloucester Road, Whiteladies Road, Cumberland Basin and Wells Road will be grateful for that permission to proceed and will not be interested in arguing between themselves about the merits of the intellectual point which my noble friend Lord Stoddart put forward.
§ On Question, Bill read a second time, and committed to a Select Committee.
§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn until five minutes past 8 o'clock.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
§ [The Sitting was suspended from 7.52 to 8.5 p.m.]