Dogs: Control and Welfare (Hansard, 24 May 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Hesketh)
My Lords, we remain committed to the package of measures outlined in the consultation paper Action on Dogs which we issued last year. These include duties on local authorities to deal with stray dogs and to enforce the existing requirement that dogs should wear a collar and identification tag.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply and the degree of encouragement, indicating that he recognises that there is a need to ensure that existing legislation is made effective. Is he aware that there are roughly 500,000 stray dogs in this country, that we put down 1,000 a day humanely and that tens of thousands suffer appallingly? Evidence as to that can be given by the British Veterinary Association, the People's 1025 Dispensary for Sick Animals and the National Farmers Union. Could not the Government therefore consider the whole issue to ensure that the legislation which exists is put into effect and, where necessary, improved upon?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am sure that noble Lords or all sides of the House are well aware of the problems arising from irresponsible dog ownership, which the noble Lord elucidated with the figures that he gave. The Government are discussing with the RSPCA and others the consultation document which we produced last year. We may even be considering strengthening some of the recommendations or suggestions therein. Before the House rises for the summer Recess there may well be further opportunities to discuss these matters in greater detail.

The Viscount of Falkland
My Lords, what is the Government's view about the danger of rabies in this country? Should rabies unfortunately arrive on these shores, what effect would that have on their views of dog registration?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the Government, and all governments I believe, are constantly vigilant in regard to rabies. As to the effect that rabies would have on a dog registration scheme, I take the example of Northern Ireland, where a licensing scheme has been operating for six years. Less than one-third of the dogs in Northern Ireland are part of that scheme. The Government have reservations about the effect of a registration scheme.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, does the Minister recall that in legislation already on the statute book provision is made for a registration scheme? Will he assure the House that if in the legislation he expects to be before this House later this year an amendment is carried against the Government, they will treat that amendment differently to the defeat they suffered in previous legislation and will carry out the will of Parliament? Will the Government also acknowledge that, despite the defects in the effectiveness of Northern Ireland legislation, the people of Northern Ireland almost unanimously are satisfied and delighted with the impact on the problem of stray dogs and violent dogs in Northern Ireland? I ask the Government to learn from the experience of Northern Ireland.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I refer back to the previous question I answered. If we are speaking about an effective control for rabies and we adopt a system which effectively registers only one-third of all dogs, apart from one's views of such a scheme, I would consider the success of using it as a tool against rabies to be doubtful. In regard to future activities, I am sure that the noble Lord would be extremely surprised to find a Minister speculating from this Dispatch Box.

§ Lord Somers
My Lords, the Minister referred to irresponsible dog owners, but does he not agree that the irresponsibility is not only on the side of dog owners? There are plenty of local authorities that do not want to bother with the organisation involved in starting such a scheme. Does he not agree that we should have a national system which all local authorities would accept and which would be absolutely infallible?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I fully appreciate the feelings of the noble Lord in regard to a dog registration scheme, but I refer him back to the figures I produced from Northern Ireland, where a licensing scheme has been in operation for six years but only one-third or less of the dogs are licensed.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that during the debate on the now famous amendment which failed in the other place both its opposers and supporters were united in one respect? They all agreed on the need to implement properly the existing legislation and to review it so that it can be improved and acted on in an efficient manner.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord's first remarks. He also made the very good point, oft forgotten, that within my little file I have in front of me there is a weighty amount of paper filled with existing legislation and opportunities for local authorities which have not been taken up.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House how he knows that only one-third of the dogs in Northern Ireland are licensed?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, it is on the basis of the figures given by those operating the scheme and what they believe. The figures are one-third for the whole of the Province and one-half in Belfast, which has more dog wardens.

§ The Earl of Listowel
My Lords, does not the noble Lord agree that one of the advantages of a dog registration scheme is that, even if only a small amount of money is raised—he agrees that that has happened in Northern Ireland—more money would nevertheless be available for local authorities throughout the country generally to provide a dog warden service? That would be a most valuable check on irresponsible ownership of dogs.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, that is entirely true. I believe I am correct in saying that the proponents of a registration scheme are in favour of it being self-financing but the worrying fact is that that assumes a fairly high level of take-up. The figures I have seen convince me that the take-up will be low, in which case the proportionate cost of such a scheme will become extremely onerous.