Civil Servants: Training (Hansard, 15 May 1990)

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, in 1988–89 the Civil Service invested £356 million to provide on average over four days training for each civil servant. Overall that compares well with good practice in the private sector. Eighty per cent. of that training is provided directly by departments to meet their particular needs. The high quality of 152 the top management programme, which is provided centrally, is indicated by the high demand for places from the private sector. The Civil Service College similarly provides a high standard of training for management and for professional development.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Leader of the House for his reply. However, does he accept that the National Audit Office reported recently that the training of white collar civil servants was too often subordinate to more immediate pressures on manpower? Does he also accept that it cited the high level of cancellations in respect of college training courses and referred to the limited role allowed to departmental training officers?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the Government welcome the report which the noble Lord mentioned and the support which it gives for the work of the Office of the Minister for the Civil Service. The details of that report are under careful consideration and the noble Lord will forgive me if I do not prejudge today the consideration that is being given to the report by the Public Accounts Committee. Having said that, perhaps I may give the noble Lord an assurance that as part of improving service to the public all departments are reviewing their training provision, particularly with a view to improving the areas of management and customer service.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, can the noble Lord the Leader of the House go one step further and tell the House, on the one hand, how much is spent on in-service training and, on the other hand, how much is spent on external training? That would be helpful information. Will he be good enough also to tell us the number of non-industrial civil servants who are currently employed?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, there are 500,000 civil servants in post. I must apologise to the noble Lord for not having the figures for in-service and other training. I think I am right in saying that a recent publication of the Office of the Minister for the Civil Service entitled Civil Service Training 1987–88 and 1988–89, only breaks down the type of training in departments into induction, vocational and management. However, if I can find an answer regarding in-service training I shall write to the noble Lord and place a copy of my letter in the Library.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, the Lord Privy Seal in his reply to me said that at this stage I would not expect him to comment in more detail on the report of the National Audit Office. However, will he go a little further and acknowledge that the matters to which I referred are of such significance that they require constant monitoring by the Government quite independently of anything that the National Audit Office may have to say upon them?

§ Lord Belstead
Yes, my Lords, I shall gladly go just a little further and agree with the noble Lord, Lord Rochester, that he mentioned certain important matters, particularly the targeting of investment and the evaluation of the outcome of training, which the Government take particularly seriously.
153 Perhaps I may respond to what the noble Lord said about monitoring. With his interest in and experience of those matters, he will perhaps agree with mo when I say that there are limits to the extent to which a direct relationship can be drawn between training and the overall performance of a business, agency or department which many other independent factors can affect. However, despite that, I hope that the noble Lord will be pleased when I say that the week before last the Office of the Minister for the Civil Service published practical guidance on evaluation. That is designed to help establish how training contributes to performance improvements, both for the individual and for the organisations concerned.

§ Lord Allen of Abbeydale
My Lords, does the noble Lord think that the Civil Service College has achieved the high hopes which were held for it? It seemed not to do so in its early days. Has it become a centre of research in the way that its founders hoped that it might develop?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, on the question of the achievements of the Civil Service College, published statistics showing high pass rates for professional qualifications achieved there indicate training well above the average. That is to be welcomed. I should like to look into the question of whether it has become: a centre for research in the way envisaged and perhaps contact the noble Lord subsequently.