§ 3.20 p.m.
§ Lord DenhamMy Lords, I should like to say a word about this afternoon's short debates in the names of the noble Earls, Lord Shannon and Lord Baldwin of Bewdley. As the mover is allowed 15 minutes and the Minister should rise to reply not 1371 less than 20 minutes before the scheduled end of the debate, in the case of the noble Earl, Lord Shannon, the number of speakers is such that it is not necessary to propose a formal time limit, but I know that noble Lords will keep their speeches within limits in conformity with the spirit of these short debates. In the case of the noble Earl, Lord Baldwin of Bewdley, all other speeches should be limited to a maximum of eight minutes.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, as the noble Lord the Chief Whip has made a Business Statement, I wish to ask him, or possibly the noble Lord the Leader of the House, a business question. A reference to the Second Reading of the Environmental Protection Bill has appeared for the first time on the statement of forthcoming business. The Second Reading is to take place on Friday 18th May. Is it not possible to revise that date, as very few noble Lords attend the House on Fridays and there is minimum media coverage on that day?
I know the answer to such a query is that the matter is decided through the usual channels. However, this concerns all Members of the House in all parties and in none. A major Bill of this kind should have its Second Reading at a time during the week when it is convenient for a large percentage of the membership to be present and when it will receive full media coverage. Will either the noble Lord the Chief Whip or the noble Lord the Leader of the House reconsider this matter and find possibly a Wednesday to use for the Second Reading of this important Bill?
§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)My Lords, I understand the concern which the noble Lord expresses. However, this matter has been agreed through the usual channels.
§ Lord StallardMy Lords, we have the example of the Second Reading of the Social Security Bill which took place a few weeks ago on a Friday. There was a lack of attendance and interest at that Second Reading debate. That Bill concerned one of the biggest spending departments in the Government, but because the Second Reading took place on a Friday it did not receive the attention to which it was entitled. Is the noble Lord the Leader of the House not concerned at that? If the trend is to have Second Readings on Fridays, is there not some merit in the concern that has been expressed by myself and by the noble Lord, Lord Hatch of Lusby? Is it not possible to reconsider allocating a Wednesday for the Second Reading of the Environmental Protection Bill?
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, before my noble friend replies to that question, does he recall that the debate on the Social Security Bill was extremely interesting and valuable? Is he aware that many of us thought it was a great advantage that, unlike much other legislation, the Second Reading took place in daylight?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I am grateful for that intervention. I understand the concern which the 1372 noble Lord, Lord Stallard, expresses. However, I must say once again that the matter was agreed through the usual channels. The noble Lord will forgive me if I add that I had hoped the noble Lords, Lord Stallard and Lord Hatch, would take the hint behind what I was saying, which was that if they feel stongly about the matter they must take it up with their Chief Whip.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I ask the noble Lord again whether he will reconsider this matter through the usual channels. Members on all sides of the House, including those on the Cross-Benches, have told me of their concern that a number of noble Lords who want to speak in this debate will be prevented from doing so as it is on a Friday. That fact also means that the debate will receive minimum media coverage. Will the noble Lord reconsider the matter through the usual channels?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, my hints do not seem to be getting across very well today. The hint behind my remarks to the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, at the beginning of these exchanges was that the answer was no.