§ 2.58 p.m.
§ Lord Renton asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ When they intend to ratify Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions of 12th August 1949, Chapter VI of which deals with civil defence.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Brabazon of Tara)My Lords, we have been considering carefully the legal, political and military implication of both Protocols I and II additional to the Geneva Conventions. This has involved a detailed and continuing process of consultation with our allies in NATO. Final decisions will be made when that process of consultation is complete.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Does he realise that the United Kingdom cannot play its full part in the international decade for disasters until the first protocol has been ratified? The Foreign Office and the Home Office between them have had 12 years in which to prepare for this. When is it likely to be done?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, it is likely to be done when the process of consultation is complete. This has taken longer than expected but much progress has been made in the past year. The protocols are long and legally complex. The United Kingdom must be clear on the obligations it would undertake before making a decision. I can tell my noble friend that in regard to the civil defence 1235 implications—there is a good deal more in this than civil defence—at present we have no plans to make reservations on Chapter VI.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House what are the current levels of annual spending on civil defence in the United Kingdom and how they compare with comparable spending in NATO as a whole?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraNo, my Lords; I cannot answer that question without notice. I think that it is a little distant from the Question which appears on the Order Paper. However, I shall try to find the necessary information and inform the noble Lord accordingly.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that in this context, under the definition given in the protocol, civil defence also includes natural disasters?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraYes, my Lords; I am aware of that fact. However, it applies only to civil defence in times of war.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, in the light of recent events in Eastern Europe can the noble Lord say whether our NATO allies have reduced their spending on civil defence?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraNo, my Lords. That question is also a long way from the one which appears on the Order Paper which asks whether we shall ratify this particular protocol. I am afraid that I do not have the answer.
§ Lord AnnanMy Lords, is 12 years the normal time for consultation? Is it par for the course?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, it depends upon what we are consulting.