§ 3 p.m.
§ Lord Molloy asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ What efforts they have made to secure the necessary changes in EC regulations to bring them into line with British equine protection regulations by 1992.
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, discussions in Brussels on proposed measures for the protection of animals during transport are at a very early stage. We will be pressing hard to maintain controls to prevent the export of horses for slaughter.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Earl for that reply. It seems to indicate that the Government are very well aware that those countries that will comprise the single European market in 1992 have very little concern for that remarkable piece of legislation, the Animal Health Act 1981, which means so much. Does he agree that unless those countries are prepared to accept the principles of the Act there will be a very serious situation and abominable cruelty to horses will continue? I hope that the Government will fight hard to see that EC regulations are improved so that they are in line with our Animal Health Act.
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, yes. We shall fight very strongly for the retention of minimum values. There is deep concern in this country for the plight of Dartmoor and other wild ponies, as well as for aged, infirm and other surplus 1040 horses if sent abroad for slaughter. Experience before minimum values were established showed that these animals were abused during journeys and on arrival in Europe. We have seen nothing in EC transport proposals to guarantee the safe handling of our horses if exported to Continental abattoirs.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, I hope that the noble Earl and the Government will not only fight the proposals emanating from Europe but will insist that ours remain in place. Is he aware that the present regulations were obtained from the British Government after a good deal of fighting on a cross-party basis in the House of Commons? Does he not agree that it would be quite intolerable for a decision that was arrived at almost unanimously by the House of Commons to be set aside by a group of European countries which does not have the same concern for animals as we have in this country?
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, as I have already said, the Government will be fighting extremely strongly for the retention of minimum values. We are also considering other means for restricting the export of horses and ponies for slaughter.
§ Lord GallacherMy Lords, can the noble Earl say whether the five abattoirs which are currently export-approved for the slaughter of equines are adequate as regards their location and their capacity for both the present and future trade in equines?
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, I am afraid that I do not have that information at hand. If I may, I shall write to the noble Lord.
§ Baroness Masham of IltonMy Lords, I ask the Minister whether he saw the article in Horse and Hound a few weeks ago which has shocked very many people about the export of horses from Britain and the state of such animals. Does he not agree that it would be kinder to put them down first and then to export them as dead meat?
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, as regards the noble Baroness's suggestion, meat exported in the form of dead carcasses is not as welcome as live animals.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, following my noble friend's Question, can the noble Earl give an assurance that the minimum values order of 1950, as embodied in the 1981 Act, will not be negated or frustrated either by the Treaty of Rome or by the Single European Act?
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, I cannot go completely down that road. I must restate what I have said. The Government will be fighting extremely strongly for the retention of minimum values.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Earl will be kind enough to go down that road and give me a direct answer to my question.
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, but I cannot give him a direct answer to his question. It would not be right for me to reveal our negotiating position. But I can assure noble Lords that it will reflect our recognition of the considerable depth of feeling in this country.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, the International League for the Protection of Horses is quite prepared to make its vast knowledge and experience available to the department so that it will have a superb case to present for our fundamental principles Act of 1981 to be adopted. Can the Minister say whether the department is prepared to consider that offer?
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, I am well aware of the noble Lord's association with the International League for the Protection of Horses.. I have read the document which it has put out. The Government are in full agreement with the noble Lord that all horses should be protected at all times.