Gurkhas and the Community Charge (Hansard, 28 March 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (The Earl of Arran)
My Lords, liability for the personal community charge arises from the test of sole or main residence. Gurkha soldiers posted to Great Britain are solely or mainly resident here. The exemption provisions from the personal charge under the Visiting Forces Act 1952 are not available to Gurkhas as they are members of the armed forces of the United Kingdom.

§ Lord Bramall
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Some would say it indicates that taxation without representation is as evident today as it was in 1767 and that the principle of accountability, which I thought was the object of the exercise, can be abandoned on the slightest pretext. Does the Minister not agree that it is manifestly unfair that a Gurkha solider, who has no vote, no right of abode at the end of his service, who makes minimal, if any, 873 use of local services provided —the number of books in Hindi in the libraries of north-east Hampshire being strictly limited—and who, unlike his higher paid British counterpart, previously paid no rates either directly or indirectly should now, from scratch, pay the equivalent for a rifleman in Hampshire of nearly one month's pay?
Does the noble Earl not also agree that the image of a Gurkha soldier from one of the poorest countries in Asia subsidising the highways, byways and social services of affluent Hampshire is both bizarre and a glaring example of a non-political anomaly? I hope that that can be put right.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, your Lordships know of the very long association which the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, has had with the Gurkhas. Your Lordships are also aware of the great and glorious deeds that the Gurkhas have performed in the past 175 years. They fought—as your Lordshiips well know—in two world wars, in the Malaya campaign and more recently in the Falklands campaign.
However, I must make two points to the noble and gallant Lord. First, liability for the community charge is not dependent on voting rights since other foreign residents are similarly affected. Secondly, the liability for the community charge is not dependent upon the personal use of local facilities but on residence in the local authority area.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, is this not another illustration of the nonsense and inconsistency of the poll tax? Does the Minister not understand that there are visiting forces—that is, Americans and their families—who hitherto paid rates and who in the future will not pay the poll tax, yet there are Gurkhas who will pay the poll tax? Does the Minister not understand that the British people will not accept that the gallant Gurkhas, as the Minister quite rightly described them, should be punished and placed at a disadvantage compared with visiting American forces?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the situation is different with visiting American forces, in that they make a contribution towards this country when they are here.

Noble Lords
Oh!

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I also point out to the noble Lord, Lord Graham of Edmonton, that Gurkha soldiers are eligible for the MoD accommodation charge rebate which will ensure that they pay no more than £1 a week more than the average service community charge.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, cannot my noble friend, who made a good pedantic legal point, realise that this is an anomaly? Will he communicate to his right honourable friend the Secretary of State that the feeling in this House is almost certainly unanimous, except for his brief, unfortunately?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I find myself in a similar position to the one I was in during the war widows' campaign. It would be folly and insensitive not the appreciate your Lordships' feelings in this matter. I have made my arguments, but in the light of the feelings in your Lordships' House I will communicate them to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

Noble Lords
Hear, hear.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords—

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords—

§ Baroness White
My Lords, the Minister has already replied. The noble Lord should sit down.

Noble Lords
Lord Wyatt.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords, while I support the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, on the question of the community charge, perhaps I may ask whether the Government will also consider dropping their foolish intention to reduce the number of Gurkhas and consider deploying them to Northern Ireland where they would put the fear of God into the terrorists, whether so-called Loyalists or IRA?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the possible use of Gurkhas in Northern Ireland has never before been taken into account and I seriously doubt that it will be considered now. Last May we announced that although it was not possible to be definite, we should plan on a future for the Gurkhas after 1997 based on a viable brigade structure.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords—

Noble Lords
Cross-Benches!

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, has been trying to speak. We have heard one Cross-Bencher. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, shall speak.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that members of Scottish regiments, including the Black Watch, on being returned to their barracks during the past year have been liable to poll tax? That is one year in advance of any other member of Her Majesty's forces. Is not that another injustice?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, that is wide of the Question on the Order Paper. The Question specifically relates to Gurkhas and the community charge.

§ Lord Carver
My Lords, if the noble Earl is unable to persuade his right honourable friend to drop the liability of Gurkhas to pay the community charge, will he ensure that the Ministry of Defence, when fixing their rates of pay, takes their liability to pay into account?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I cannot prejudge the outcome of my session with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence. I should point out to the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Carver, that Gurkhas have their accommodation and food charges waived and they also do not contribute to ERNIC —the earnings related national insurance charge.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that his reference to his vigorous defence of the treatment of war widows —on which the Government subsequently gave way—indicates some grounds of optimism for those of us who hope that a similar reversal will follow his current defence of the indefensible? Is he also aware that many noble Lords find it quite revolting that these gallant men, whose homes are in Nepal, are made to contribute to English local authorities? I say that with particular emphasis as a Hampshire resident.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I should point out to my noble friend that in any particular circumstances optimism is always speculative.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, if the noble Earl is unable to produce any better answers, and if at some time during the darkness of night he hears a swish, will he take care not to nod his head too hard?