§ 8.8 p.m.
§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne rose to move. That the draft order laid before the House on 20th February be approved [11th Report from the Joint Committee].
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, this order, which is being made under powers in Section 149 of the Employment Protection (Consolidation) Act 1978, is concerned with the basis on which redundancy payments are calculated in the field of local government service. It amends the Redundancy Payments (Local Government) Modification Order which the House approved in July 1983. The 1983 order was previously amended in 1985 to take account of changes arising from the Local Government Act 1985 and was amended again in 1988 and 1989 bringing in several bodies that were omitted in 1983 and 1985, or had since come into existence.
§ I should explain that under the provisions of Part VI of the 1978 Act an employee who is discharged as redundant after at least two years' service is entitled to be paid a redundancy payment, calculated, among other things, according to his period of continuous service with his last employer. Local authorities and related institutions are legally distinct employers, so that on the strict basis of the statutory scheme on its own an employee would be entitled to a payment every time he became redundant even though he intended to move on to a post elsewhere in local government.
474§ This situation would not, however, correctly reflect the realities of local government service in which a normal career progression commonly involves moving from one authority to another, perhaps several times during an individual's working life. Local government collective agreements therefore provide for local authorities to base their redundancy payments on total aggregated service in local government and the 1983 order secures a similar effect in the stututory redundancy scheme by replacing service with one employer with total "relevant local government service".
§ Because there is no convenient and comprehensive definition of what constitutes local government employment, it is necessary to list in the order all the employing authorities and bodies with whom service counts as local government service. Two lists are necessary. The first, in Schedule 1 to the 1983 order, lists those employers currently in being by whom anyone may be made redundant. The second, in the appendix to Schedule 2 in the same order, lists those bodies with which service may still be reckoned for redundancy purposes.
§ The amending order simply adds to the lists in Schedule 1 in the 1983 order bodies which have come into existence since the last amendment was made or omitted in 1983, 1985, 1988 and 1989. It is essentially a tidying up measure. The number of employees likely to be affected is small. I trust that I have said enough to satisfy your Lordships that these are necessary and innocuous amendments. I commend the order to your Lordships and I beg to move.
§ Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 20th February by approved. [11th Report from the Joint Committee] .— {The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne.)
§ Lord CarterMy Lords, I thank the Minister for the clear way in which he explained the order, and we welcome it. The order tidies up the rules and extends the number of bodies in which continuous local government service can be achieved.
We do not agree with the primary and privatisation legislation that has been the cause of the order. However, this is not the time to debate the merits or otherwise of privatisation. We assume that by introducing the orders the Government are, by implication, undertaking that the protection of redundancy payments in local government services will continue. That will be particularly important next year with the abolition of the ILEA, for example. I confirm that we on these Benches have no objection to the order.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, we on these Benches also thank the noble Lord for explaining the order and accept it as it stands.
§ The Earl of Strathmore and KinghorneMy Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their comments.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.