Vagrancy Acts: Prosecutions (Hansard, 19 March 1990)

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, information for 1989 is not yet available. Statistics are not recorded in the precise form requested, but in 1988 there were 227 prosecutions of persons aged under 18 for offences under the Vagrancy Act 1824. Most of these would be for offences under Sections 3 and 4.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. However, will he agree that it is a horrifying and worrying situation whereby young people are being "criminalised" purely because they are homeless and penniless? In view of the fact that under the Act no one can be prosecuted for sleeping rough unless he refuses a place of shelter, can the Minister say what places of shelter are offered to young people? As the latest Department of the Environment figures show that homelessness has risen by 10 per cent. over the past year, can he say how the inter-departmental review which includes young people is progressing and when it will be completed?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I understand the concern of the noble Baroness about people who are homeless. However prosecutions of those under 18 under the Vagrancy Act have reduced in recent years from 302 in 1985 to 227 in 1988. Of those, there 4 were no prosecutions for sleeping rough; there were 105 prosecutions for indecent exposure and 107 for being on enclosed premises for unlawful purposes. The noble Baroness will be aware that the Vagrancy Act covers a lot of curious situations. Regarding the interdepartmental organisation, my right honourable friend the Secetary of State announced a £ 250 million programme of help in this direction last November.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, can the Minister say in regard to this touching problem of our youth whether there is liaison between the Home Office, various police officers and parts of local government which are affected? Do these three meet at any time to try to resolve this disturbing problem?

Earl Ferrers
Yes, my Lords, the Government are at the moment undertaking a review which includes all these different departments to try to see what can be done in order to help the homeless.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, when does the noble Earl expect that review to be published?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I think that we had better wait to see what the review says. It is an interdepartmental review trying to draw together the threads between each individual department.

§ Baroness Faithfull
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether this review will show how many of these young people have been in care and have no home or background?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I cannot give my noble friend the answer to that. We are trying to co-ordinate the efforts of the different departments in order to find out how best to deal with those who are homeless. Obviously if in the course of the review the information to which my noble friend referred becomes available, that will be an added advantage.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lord, is it not a fact that the age group which we are considering constitutes a major and tragic percentage of those responsible for the crime figures that have been given to the House on a previous occasion? Does the Minister ally homelessness to criminality among young people? Is the interdepartmental committee of which he spoke aware of the relevance of homelessness to the crime figures?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, there is clearly concern for fear that homelessness involves crime. However I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, that it is a high percentage. The Question of the noble Baroness referred to people under 18 and the figures I have show that only about 2 to 3 per cent. of those under 18 are caught by the Act. Clearly we are greatly concened to ensure, where this can be done, that those who are homeless are housed and that they should not be involved in crime.

§ Lord Mishcon
My Lords, perhaps there is some misunderstanding. Did the Minister realise that I was talking about the percentage of the total crime 5 figures in this age group? I asked him whether homelessness was a factor.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I beg the noble Lord's pardon. I misunderstood his question. I quite agree that young people form a significant proportion in the crime figures. Whether or not that is due to homelessness is another matter.

The Earl of Selkirk
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether any full examination has been made of the cause of vagrancy? We live today in a country with apparently more people homeless than ever before and with more habitable houses than there has ever been in the history of the country. Why are these two factors not joined together?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, it is a matter of concern that there is so much homelessness. That is the reason why the Government are reviewing what can be dons in order to find out the causes.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, following the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Faithfull, will the Minister assure us that in the inquiry that is being undertaken we shall have full information as to whether these young persons have come out of care? If the answer is that a high percentage has, I am sure that the noble Earl will agree that it has important implications for our care policies. Is that information being sought in the process of the inquiry?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, a great deal of information is being sought. Whether or not people have come out of care is a matter of concern. I should just tell the noble Baroness that at present we are involved in discussions with the health and social services authorities and the voluntary bodies in central London with a view to identifying practical steps to help people obtain the support they need.

§ Lady Saltoun of Abernethy
My Lords, will the noble Earl also bear in mind in this inquiry that young people may have had to leave home because they were being assaulted or abused? Will the inquiry go into that also?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, obviously if that factor comes out, it will be of great concern. There are a number of different causes for people deciding to go out and sleep rough or to be unhoused. It is our desire to try to find out the cause and how it can be rectified. It is impossible to say that, having discovered the causes, we are able to remove the problem for ever.