Football Clubs and Local Communities (Hansard, 15 March 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Hesketh)
My Lords, the Government will continue to encourage "Football in the Community" schemes, run by the Professional Footballers Association, and other community initiatives taken by football clubs. The Training Agency provides financial support to the Professional Football Association schemes and the Sports Council provides financial assistance for clubs' community facilities.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, I should like to advise the Minister that the Question is wholly benign and not malignant. Does he share my view that since the terrible Hillsborough disaster there has been a breath of fresh air in football in the form of those who are anxious to put right many of the aspects which people recognised were wrong? Can he tell us how his department intends to monitor the progress being made by those clubs that have in mind bringing together the local authorities, the local youth clubs, the local schools, the local police and other bodies? I ask this because, unless it is someone's job to prod and probe, it is possible that in 10 years' time very little progress will have been achieved.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for stating that his Question is benign. I entirely agree with him. It is to be hoped that out of the Hillsborough tragedy will come a new flowering for the sport and a new relationship especially with the young whom we hope to encourage to appreciate the game, and that will enable us to go forward. I have certain doubts as to whether the department can actively monitor the situation over the above contributing cash resources towards the schemes. However, I shall draw the noble Lord's remarks to the attention of my honourable friend the Minister for Sport.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, has it come to the notice of the Government that a great deal of trouble at football matches is caused by organised gangs of people who seem to indulge in a rival sport of fighting each other? Is my noble friend aware that so long as that situation prevails it will be very difficult to achieve the right relationship among all those concerned with football?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, last year this House had extended discussions on the matters which my noble friend draws to our attention. The important aspect about the Question before us today is that we are trying to encourage young people to take an interest in the game. Whether we can reclaim the interest of those who engage in the activity of fighting—and a football match is purely the scenario for this—is a difficult and challenging problem.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, will it be worthwhile having discussions with the representatives of the clubs at all levels of rugby union, including the international level? They do not seem to have any problem whatsoever, and they might be able to give some guidance to professional soccer.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am firmly of the belief that this is a problem for football that has to be cured by football.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the scheme that has worked well in Scotland for two years? It involves all the bodies mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Graham, together with at least two major sponsors who consider aspects in the stadium as well as clean play and discipline on the field.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, it is absolutely clear that all initiatives which have proved to be successful and which have been drawn to my attention by my noble friend should be looked at.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the club with which I am associated—Millwall—probably had more hooligans than some others I could name? It has now introduced a scheme which brings in the local council, local schools and others with a community officer. That is important. Would the Minister care to comment and say whether such a scheme, which seems completely to obliterate hooliganism, could be extended nationally?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the fame of the success of the Millwall scheme is such that my own officials at the Department of the Environment produced a document about it to show the respect in which it is held.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many football clubs at all levels in the country fear desperate financial straits as a result of the new business community charge? Is it not the case that if, as is feared by some of them, they get into debt they will not have the money to develop the schemes that the noble Lord has been putting forward and about which my noble friend has asked?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, was referring to the business rate. That is, I feel, wide of the Question on the Order Paper. However, if he wishes to put down a Question on the subject I should be more than happy to answer.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mellish, is proud to be president of the Millwall club. He rightly takes credit from the fact that the club took an initiative which has been copied by a number of other clubs. Will the Minister agree that, sad to say, over a period of time, some clubs will take positive initiatives and some will not? Surely it is not beyond the wit of the department to find a means of checking up periodically, through an agency or an association with which it works, or directly. Clubs are left untouched by initiatives and quite frankly many still live in the past.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I said earlier to the noble Lord, Lord Graham, that I would draw his concerns to the attention of my honourable friend the Minister for Sport. However, these schemes only work if there are willing participants on both sides.

§ Lord Kirkhill
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree with me that the continuing private ownership of the majority of professional football clubs makes it difficult to have true community involvement?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am not sure whether the noble Lord is therefore suggesting the nationalisation of football clubs.

§ Lord Kirkhill
My Lords, that is a cheap and easy jibe for the noble Lord to make. It is not what I suggested; nor did I imply that.