§ 3.8 p.m.
§ Report received.
§ Clause 1 [New provisions in connection with government trading funds]:
§
Lord Bruce of Donington moved Amendment No. 1:
Page 6, line 25, after ("or") insert ("while continuing to be operations of a department of the government").
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I move the amendment with some confidence because I observe that in Amendment No. 3 proposed by the noble Earl the wording of the clause to which my amendment related incorporates the provisions that I have proposed. I am grateful to the noble Earl for having accepted the amendment which, as the House will recall, was moved as part of the argument that I adduced relating to the question of possible privatisation without primary legislation.
§ My original amendment endeavoured to deal with that point. However, I am assured and advised legally from this side of the House that, together with other parts of the Bill, the amendment will ensure that any endeavour to privatise the agencies which are the subject of the Bill will necessitate primary legislation. I am reassured by that and I am grateful to the noble Earl for having accepted the amendment in advance. I beg to move.
604The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, for tabling this amendment which I recommend that the House should accept. It proves the diligent work which the noble Lord has carried out on this Bill. It is something that we have come to expect from him and he has not let us down. He has given careful and detailed study to this measure.
I should like to stray slightly from the amendment to comment on a matter. Having re-read the Committee stage of the proceedings in this House, I should like to take up one point made by the noble Lord on accounts. In particular, he was speaking about IBAP's accounts. As part of the process of establishing IBAP as a Next Steps agency from April this year, IBAP and the Treasury agreed that IBAP's accounting should be improved by an accruals-based accounting system to Companies Act standards. The agency intends to produce such accounts in addition to the appropriation accounts for the 1990–91 accounting year, which the agency and the Treasury regard as the earliest practicable date. No doubt the noble Lord will have noticed that an NAO report recommended just that.
That intervention agency account will meet the noble Lord's criteria which he expounded to the Committee. In particular, it will cover all the funds flowing through the agency, provide for assets and liabilities and conform to best commercial practice. It will be prepared in the light of the Treasury pamphlet on trading accounts, which the noble Lord so warmly commended, and of further guidance which the Treasury is preparing on the form of agency reports and accounts which the agency has seen in draft.
The NAO is already being consulted on the precise form of the accounts and is a member of the IBAP's accounts project team. I hope that that reassures the noble Lord that we take seriously the question of accounts but that we were right to resist the temptation of putting on the face of the Bill the words which he wanted.
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 2 [Minor and consequential amendments related to section 1]:
§ The Earl of Caithness moved Amendment No. 2:
§
Page 9, line 36, at end insert:
("(5) That Act, as amended by section 1 of this Act and this section, is set out in Schedule (Government Trading Funds Act 1973, as amended) to this Act.").
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, in moving this amendment I shall speak also to Amendment No. 3. However lengthy these amendments may appear, their purpose is very simple. This Bill amends the Government Trading Funds Act 1973. But, as your Lordships will be aware, it is not easy to follow the final result simply by reading the Act and this Bill together. Therefore, we considered that it would be helpful for those needing to use this legislation in the future to reprint the 1973 Act as it will be when amended. That is what these two amendments achieve.
§ For the avoidance of doubt, I should make it clear that these amendments make no change to the text 605 of the Bill and reflect all amendments made to the Bill during its passage, including the amendment which, we have just agreed in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington. I beg to move.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Earl for his explanation in respect of Amendments Nos. 2 and 3. As he will recall, in our deliberations previously I referred to the very complex and technical nature of the Bill and suggested that it would be helpful to consolidate it. I am entirely in support of the steps which the noble Earl has taken to meet that problem.
On the previous amendment, the noble Earl mentioned accounts. For the time being at any rate, I accept the assurances which he has given. There are a comparatively small number of government trading agencies covered by the Bill, and that number will not be greatly enlarged by the numbers that are to join them. Apart from the Patent Act which is dealt with somewhat differently and since all the accounts will be to the end of the calendar year, can the noble Earl arrange for copies of the accounts to be placed in the Library of your Lordships' House as and when they are published so that we can keep track Of this matter?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I shall read with care what the noble Lord said when the Official Report is published to see whether I can meet his request.
§ Lord Lloyd of KilgerranMy Lords, this schedule is very helpful in relation to the amendments to the 1973 Act. As regards what the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, said about the Patent Act, perhaps I may ask a question in order to display my ignorance in this sphere. The Minister knows that recently a committee was set up under the chairmanship of Dr. Coleman which related to the possible trading activities of the Patent Office. Can the noble Earl tell me either now or later whether the provisions under Clauses 2 and 3 as amended affect the position of the Patent Office if in some curious way it has exploited its assets?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, when the noble Lord says that he is ignorant on these matters, it is worth recalling that there is nobody in your Lordships' House who knows more about patent work than the noble Lord. Therefore, I am slightly wary in giving him a precise answer.
The amendment which we agreed deals only with accounts. I shall read with care what the noble Lord said and write to him on the matter.
§ Lord Lloyd of KilgerranMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Earl.
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§
The Earl of Caithness moved Amendment No. 3:
After Clause 5, insert the following new schedule: