The Disabled: Public Transport (Hansard, 15 June 1990)

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, the Department of Transport worked closely with the Consumers' Association on the preparation of its report and is already promoting action on many of the areas covered by its recommendations. Among other initiatives the department is moving, in conjunction with other European countries, towards technical legislation to ensure better access to buses and coaches. The department is also continuing to work with British Rail, with local authorities and others on a wide range of further improvements in the provision of transport for people with disabilities.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Earl for that reply. Is he aware that in welcoming this report he is helping to give needed publicity to the problems of the disabled on public transport? I hope that he can reinforce what he said on bus and coach design bearing in mind that, to a certain extent, the slowness in the arrival of new vehicles on the road has been partly caused by the reduction in subsidy and deregulation. Are the Government prepared to contemplate legislation if the present pressure does not come to fruition fairly quickly?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, there is a general trend throughout Europe for modern coaches to have high floors. That makes them attractive from the point of view of offering visibility and providing plenty of luggage space, but it means that the entrance steps are steep. That creates problems not just for wheelchair users but also for many frail and elderly people for whom coach travel would otherwise be an attractive option. The Department of Transport has been working both with British manufacturers and on a Europe-wide basis to find solutions to this problem. At a recent seminar run by the European Conference of Ministers of Transport in Paris a group of technical experts came together specifically to discuss improvements in access to coaches. The clear conclusion from that seminar was that if the trend towards high floor coaches were to continue it would be necessary to move towards legislation that would require all future generations of coaches to be 528 lift-equipped. Fitting lifts in coaches will not only make it possible for wheelchair users to travel for the first time but will also make coach travel easier and more comfortable for large numbers of other passengers.

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister give any information as regards what disabled or handicapped people may expect on British Rail branch lines? On mainline stations help is often readily available but such people are discouraged from travelling on branch line trains because they feel that no assistance will be given to them.

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, enormous progress has been made in opening up services and stations to disabled people. New InterCity trains have wheelchair accessible toilets. New station design guides on the needs of the disabled have recently been published by British Rail. I trust those improvements will also take effect on branch lines.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the Minister aware that on London Transport vehicles a number of seats have signs asking people to surrender them to disabled or aged people? That is not a satisfactory situation. Why cannot those seats be completely reserved for disabled people?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, London Regional Transport operates a number of services specifically for the disabled although the general public can use them. It has been discovered that the general public do not use those services because they have signs stating that they are for the use of the disabled.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, we should all be grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, for raising this matter today and for the report in Which? magazine. One gets the impression that we have been doing rather well in catering for disabled people, although we have not perhaps made progress as fast as we should have. However, it appears there has been rather a slowing down recently. I am grateful that the Minister has read out the steps that the department is taking in this regard, but I believe that we are now ready greatly to raise the level of public consciousness about the problems of the disabled. I hope that the department will do everything possible to reinforce that public awareness.

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, I fully agree with the noble Lord's point. It should not be forgotten that 12 per cent. of the population has a mobility handicap. I shall give an example of what the Government are doing. The Government are committed to the success of London Dial-a-Ride and they have provided an extra £1 million grant for that for 1990–91. That represents an increase to £8.27 million.

§ Lord McCarthy
My Lords, will the noble Earl comment on a statement in the Which? report which 529 asserts that one of the problems on buses is that the Government's policies of deregulation and increasing competition have meant there is much less stock, much smaller margins and a lot of pirate operators who do nothing for the disabled?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, on the subject of buses, approximately one in 10 of London buses have features that are included in the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee specification. That amounts to more than 400 buses. The Airbus and the Carelink services provide wheelchair accessible links between Heathrow, Victoria and Euston and the mainline stations respectively.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, does the noble Earl accept that in spite of the movement that has been made in this area the problems raised by his noble friend Lord Gainford and by the noble Lord, Lord Carmichael, still exist and need an enormous amount of pressure to overcome them? Does the noble Lord accept that we cannot be satisfied with the fact that only a tenth of London buses are of an acceptable standard nor that large numbers of people in wheelchairs who travel on trains have to go into guard's vans?

§ The Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
My Lords, again the noble Lord, Lord Tordoff, has an extremely good point. The recommendations in the Which? report are all extremely welcome and I am happy to assure your Lordships that most of them are already in hand.