HL Deb 04 June 1990 vol 519 cc1078-80

2.52 p.m.

Lord Stallard asked Her Majesty's Government:

How many citizens of the United Kingdom, now resident in Canada, will qualify under the 20-year rule to vote at the next general election.

The Minister of State, Home office (Earl Ferrers)

My Lords, there are an estimated 1, 025, 000 British citizens living in Canada who are likely to have spent less than 20 years there. This figure may include people who were not registered as electors in the United Kingdom before they left as adults, who will therefore not qualify to register as overseas electors.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, is the Minister aware that among those potential voters are many men and women who served this country well in the last war, who have spent all their working lives in this country, who have paid taxes and national insurance contributions in this country, like the rest of us, and who are now spending their retirement with sons or daughters in Canada? How will the Government's election material convince those people of the equality of their case, as opposed to the pensioners who live in 28 other countries, in regard to annual increases in their pensions? How does the Minister justify the discrimination against pensioners who live in Canada in regard to annual increases in pensions?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I thought of many supplementary questions which the noble Lord, Lord Stallard, might ask but I did not think he would ask anything about pensions. The Question on the Order Paper asks how many citizens of the United Kingdom will qualify to vote under the 20-year rule, and that is the answer I gave to him.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, is the Minister aware that I simply referred to some of those voters who will be canvassed by his Government? I asked the Minister how his Government will explain to those voters why they are being discriminated against. Potential voters who live in America, Finland Turkey and Israel receive annual pension increases, whereas pensioners living in Canada do not. How will the Government justify that to those voters?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Stallard, will table a Question on pensions and people who vote overseas I shall be delighted to answer it, but I do not think that the matter relates to this Question.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, how many of the estimated 1 million people have votes in Canada? Does the Minister think it right that they should be able to vote in two places, if they have votes in Canada?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, the ability to vote in another country as an overseas resident is optional. If a person wishes to take it he may do so, but it is not compulsory.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, if an overseas resident takes that option does it preclude him from voting in a general election here?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, if the resident takes the option to vote in this country then he may exercise it. If the noble Lord is asking about the voting systems in other countries I am bound to tell him that I am not aware of the voting systems in all the different countries in which such people live. I can only tell the noble Lord that, if people go to another country and exercise this right, then they have the right to vote in our general elections.

Baroness Phillips

My Lords, is the Minister able to tell the House how many other people in various parts of the world are in a position to vote in general elections in this country under that right? I have heard bandied about a figure of between 5 million and 8 million, and that would certainly be enough to put in the wrong government. Is that figure correct?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I am sure that if they voted the correct way they would not put in the wrong government. I cannot tell the noble Baroness the aggregate number of people entitled to vote. I could give a breakdown, which I fear might weary your Lordships, starting with Algeria, Angola, Antigua, Argentina, Ascension Islands right down through to the Philippines, Poland and Portugal. They all have different numbers of people who are entitled to vote in this country. I am unable to give the aggregate.

Baroness Fisher of Rednal

My Lords, unless one registers for the poll tax, or community charge, one cannot vote—the Government's argument being that as a responsible voter one can see how one's money is spent. How does that point of view apply to the people referred to by the Minister, who do not pay any taxes in this country?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, there has always been the ability for people who went abroad for periods of time to retain their voting capacity in this country. Until the beginning of this year the period was five years but it was extended to 20 years as a result of extensive consultation with the main political parties and local authority interests. Parliament decided that the right should be extended to people living abroad for up to 20 years. of course, other countries have no restriction at all.

Lord Denham

My Lords, in view of the fact that 67 noble Lords have given notice of their intention to speak today in the Second Reading debate on the War Crimes Bill perhaps your Lordships might feel that speeches in this very important debate should be as short as possible in order to allow any vote to be taken at a reasonable hour and therefore achieve the most accurate reflection of the opinion of the whole House.