Soviet and East European Studies (Hansard, 26 July 1990)

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government and government funded bodies have taken a number of additional steps which should facilitate Soviet and East European studies, including measures which should benefit the learning of Russian in schools; measures to address the shortage of language teachers; the expansion of educational exchanges with the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe; and the expansion of the Economic and Social Research Council's funding for research and postgraduate support in Soviet and East European studies.

§ Lord Callaghan of Cardiff
My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Baroness for that reply. However, is she aware that it will be widely regarded as disappointing because it contains nothing new following the report of the Wooding Committee, which stated that provision was totally inadequate for our national needs? We only have the part funding of 10 new lectureships. Which of the recommendations of the Wooding Committee do the Government disagree with and why?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I am not sure I entirely agreed with the noble Lord when he said that nothing was happening. An interesting debate took place in this Chamber only a few weeks ago when noble Lords on all sides agreed that much had to be done as regards improving the teaching of languages, especially in our schools. The Government have made the learning of a modern European language central to the national curriculum. As that works through the system, many more young people will be engaged not only in learning Russian but also in learning many other languages. I am not aware of any recommendation of the committee that the Government do not agree with. The Government are addressing those recommendations which were put before them. I understand that the Universities Funding Council and the Polytechnics and Colleges Funding Council are already consulting with their individual bodies and will act on those recommendations.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that we have a lot of ground to make up? This country had a very good system of Soviet and East European studies in the immediate post-war years, thanks largely to languages learnt in the services, which with great lack of foresight we allowed to decline. The noble Lord, Lord Callaghan, has therefore raised a matter which goes far beyond merely additional language teaching in schools. In so far as concerns the Economic and Social Research Council, which as my noble friend informed us has responsibilities in this area, will the Government 1614 encourage it to look favourably at the imaginative scheme of the universities of Birmingham and Oxford for a joint centre to study the transformation of East European economies?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the Wooding Report and the committee on the teaching of modern languages have done great service. I repeat that we all agree that there is much to be done and that there has been a great insularity among the British people about learning languages and becoming interested in the ways of other countries. My noble friend has made an interesting point and I shall pass his suggestion on to my right honourable friend.
In July the Economic and Social Research Council approved funding of more than £¾ million over five years for a major new research initiative to investigate the changes occurring in Eastern Europe. It is also supporting other projects in Soviet and East European studies valued at nearly £1 million. There are currently 25 research postgraduates and 12 advanced course postgraduates being supported by the ESRC funds. I understand that the council will support more studentships as suitable applicants come forward. I also understand that the number of applicants has doubled in the last four years.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, has the noble Baroness herself read the so-called Wooding Report, because a great deal more is involved in the report about the need for supervision and an advisory committee than emerges from her remarks? Does she agree that it is tragic, having heard yesterday about the peace dividend, that money is not being used for this purpose? Does she accept that it is not only a question of the Soviet Union but also of Eastern Europe? Norman Wooding is extremely able and so are his colleagues, one of whom, before he became an ambassador, was private secretary to my noble friend Lord Callaghan. It is a very high powered report and it is being treated almost with contempt by the Government. I beg the noble Baroness and her colleagues to show greater awareness of the many detailed recommendations, on which we should like detailed replies.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I believe that to be an unfair criticism of the Government's very positive response to the Wooding Report. I have the report here and I have read it recently. Government funding is helping to develop Soviet and East European studies. As a result of the report the Prime Minister announced the creation of the additional lectureships during her recent visit to the Soviet Union. The scheme is to be administered by the British Council through a special advisory committee, whose members will include Dr. Wooding. Dr. Wooding's work is well recognised and valued by the Government.
The aim is to establish up to 10 posts, the cost to be shared among higher education institutions, the Government and other sources. I hope that that initiative will encourage higher education institutions themselves to develop their provision for Soviet and East European studies, and, indeed, the private sector, 1615 which will come to realise more and more the importance and relevance of Soviet and East European studies.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, I am not sure, because the Minister spoke so fast, whether the ERASMUS scheme is being used in Russia and Eastern Europe. Can she clarify that point?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I cannot be specific but I understand that the response is on all fronts so that I would expect ERASMUS to be used. I shall let the noble Baroness know if I have misled her.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does the noble Baroness not agree that the fundamental point made by my noble friend Lord Callaghan of Cardiff is that we are entering an incredible new era of massive changes in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union? Therefore should not what has been requested on both sides of the House be a top priority of the Government so that we can understand how things are developing, keep pace and be able to respond in the correct manner?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, it is an important subject There has been a major study. The Government for the first time have made modern languages central to the national curriculum. I believe that much is being done. As I said, there is more to be done and we shall continue to regard the subject as very important.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, it is difficult to judge whether the Government are being reassuring. Does the noble Baroness not recognise that 10 new lectureships hardly represents one per East European country? It does not seem a great deal to me. In particular, following the remarks that have been made, does she not recognise that we are not simply talking about the Soviet Union but about a great many other countries, and the study not only of the languages but of the economies of those countries has been neglected for a great many years? Does the noble Baroness agree that there will be enormous economic benefits if the Government give the lead in seeing that a great deal more research takes place in those areas? It is not just a matter of languages; there are markets and investment opportunities. To take an obvious example, Czechoslovakia alone is a country for which we need 10 lectureships. While I do not wish to criticise the Government, will the noble Baroness recognise that we are trying to encourage her to see that a great deal more is done?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that 10 new lectureships alone are not enough. However, a great deal more is going on. I repeat that the approach is on all fronts. The Central Bureau for Educational Visits and Exchanges has received more money to meet the demand for teacher exchanges, to enable teachers to go to Russia to Net up school links and enable the quota for school exchanges to be met. In other Eastern European countries, as well as providing the central bureau with funds to expand activities, money has also been made available to develop exchange programmes. Those include teacher study visits to Poland to set up school links, summer 1616 language camps in Hungary, Poland and Turkey and a summer language camp in the UK for Polish schoolchildren.

§ Baroness Phillips
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that many of us admire the skilful and courteous way in which she handles the many questions put to her on her subject?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I am feeling slightly battered but I am enormously grateful for those comments.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that if the recommendations are to be implemented substantial additional resources will be essential? She mentioned the initiatives of the polytechnics; she did not mention the universities. Can she say what discussions have been held between her department and the CVCP on the implications of Wooding for the universities? She also mentioned the Universities Funding Council. Can she be more specific and say what is being done by the council in this matter?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the Wooding Report was commissioned by the Universities Funding Council's predecessor and therefore there have been discussions between the UFC and the Government. The UFC and the Polytechnics and Colleges Funding Council are holding discussions with their individual institutions. Funding will come from government through those agencies. When individual students bid for funds, clearly the Wooding Report will have an impact on how funds are allocated as the individual institutions respond to its recommendations.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Baroness answer my question concerning discussions with the CVCP.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I am not sure whether the Government have spoken to the CVCP with that item on the agenda. I should be surprised if they have not, but if I have misled the noble Lord in any way I shall write to him.

§ Lord Callaghan of Cardiff
My Lords, I yield to no one in my admiration of the noble Baroness's capacity to reply and to do so at such a speed that my slow mind has not been able to take in the response. That was a lesson which was taught me many years ago. She has certainly learnt it.
Is the noble Baroness aware that the keystone of the Wooding Report, as the Wooding Committee said, is the setting up of a central advisory committee? Incidentally, the report was commissioned by Ministers although set up by the UGC, but that is a minor matter. That keystone of the report would enable us to satisfy ourselves more fully that all of the recommendations and decisions of the Government are being carried out. Would the noble Baroness consider setting up such an advisory committee? Has she seen the letter in The Times of 29th June in which, despite all that she said this morning, the conclusion of the Wooding Committee is that that is a totally inadequate response to the situation which the committee found and falls far short of our national need?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the speed with which I answer questions has much more to do with wanting to get Question Time over, having suffered yesterday. The noble Lord made a very important point. The Government believe that if they were to set up such a committee it would usurp the role of the funding councils, given that the funding councils commissioned the report. Nevertheless the Government also believe that it would be a matter for the funding councils if they felt that such a body was worth setting up. There is something in that thought. I hope that the noble Lord will reserve his criticism of the response to the Wooding Report. It is still relatively new and has to be responded to not just by government departments but by the whole school sector, the university and polytechnic sector and of course commerce and industry too.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, perhaps I may ask one more question of the noble Baroness. Will she agree that although we have many weeks ahead of us in which we can discuss the issue, this is a very important question? I shall not join in the general tributes to the noble Baroness. I simply ask noble Lords not to be misled by her charm in these matters. As a former chairman of the East European Trade Council—I know I speak also for my immediate successor the noble Earl, Lord Jellicoe, who would wish to be here—I must say that this is a matter of immediate concern to us. It is a fact that the decline in some of the university East European and Russian studies has come about through lack of general funding. That issue has to be addressed along with this question. It is no use expecting the Universities Funding Council to provide the money unless funds are provided overall. Will the Minister comment?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, my answers are not meant to obscure their content. I believe that there is some urgency and that people are responding. In terms of funding, in the current year the universities have received 10 per cent. over the previous year. It is also a matter of priorities for the individual institutions.