HL Deb 16 July 1990 vol 521 cc651-2

2.51 p.m.

Lord Molloy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will ensure that self-governing hospitals remain within the National Health Service

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, NHS trusts will remain fully part of the National Health Service and will continue to provide services for NHS patients free of charge at the point of use.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. Is she aware that recently the Prime Minister herself said that self-governing does not mean leaving the NHS altogether? Can the noble Baroness explain what that means? In circumstances where the majority of doctors and nurses wish to remain totally within the NHS, will their desires be acknowledged? Thirdly, can the noble Baroness—

Noble Lords

No!

Lord Molloy

Thirdly, can the noble Baroness please explain what the inclusion of the words "other units" means? Many people would like to have that information.

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, I am happy to assist the noble Lord by making absolutely clear that NHS trusts will not opt out of the National Health Service. That has been said on many occasions prior to the statement made by the Prime Minister to which the noble Lord referred. They will remain firmly part of the National Health Service. They will continue to provide treatment free of charge at the point of delivery. However, what will change is that they will take over responsibility for their own management from district health authorities. The "other units" to which the noble Lord referred are, for example, ambulance units, not just hospital units.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, I am somewhat puzzled. Is the noble Baroness suggesting that those who run the NHS trusts will be employed by the National Health Service as opposed to being employed by the trusts and that the premises will continue to be in the ownership of the NHS rather than the ownership of the trusts? Secondly, how can the Government justify spending million of NHS money on Conservative propaganda in the leaflet, The NHS Reforms and You, which is to go to every household? The Government attack the BMA for propaganda, paid for by the doctors, but their own propaganda is paid for by the hard-pressed taxpayer. Does the noble Baroness agree that that is the situation?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, if the BMA had not carried on such an unnecessary campaign perhaps it would not have been necessary to have had this leaflet in the first place. Having said that, certainly in regard to the NHS trusts the employees will be employed by a trust which is a unit within the National Health Service. That means that those employees are within the NHS.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, did I mishear the Minister? Did she say that the purpose of the taxpayer-funded campaign on the NHS reforms was in retaliation against the doctors' campaign against aspects of these reforms? Is that the set-up?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, that is another question. Nevertheless, it is important that the patients, or consumers, who will benefit from our reforms should understand perfectly and properly what those reforms are, and not be misled.