TVEI: Level of Spending (Hansard, 11 July 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Strathclyde)
My Lords, the overall TVEI budget has not been cut. The Government remain committed to spending £900 million on extending TVEI to all 14 to 18 year-olds in maintained schools and colleges. The public expenditure White Paper shows planned expenditure on TVEI of £134 million in 1990–91, £133 million in 1991–92 and £141 million in 1992–3.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response but I am afraid that it is not satisfactory. Is he aware that the authorities which are starting new schemes for TVEI this autumn have had their budgets cut by between 50 per cent. and 68 per cent.—in other words, by a very large sum of money? Can he say how much money these authorities have wasted in preparing for schemes that they now cannot put on? Can he also indicate why the Government attach so little importance to TVEI that they have made cuts that dash the hopes of both teachers and employers about the scheme?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I cannot agree with the noble Baroness. The TVEI programme is expanding at a considerable rate. By September 1990, 103 education authorities will be in the extension phase. We all have to operate within the resources available to us. No time or money that the schools will put into working out the initiative will have been wasted.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is the Minister aware that one of the reasons why we are not competitive with our colleagues in Western Europe is that we do not have a training culture in this country? Is the TVEI scheme not very important in establishing such a culture? We have to motivate young people. Does the Minister not agree that it is unfortunate that the view should get around that the Government are less committed to the TVEI scheme than appeared to be the case when they published their document, Employment for the 1990s, particularly since this year, I gather, is the year when we shall have TVEI operating across the country? Would the Minister care to comment?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, it is very unfortunate if it is getting around that the Government are not committed to training and technical and vocational 270 education. The House knows how keen the Government are to promote training and technical and vocational education. It is a little rich for the noble Baronesses to come to the House all sweetness and light complaining about TVEI when they know perfectly well that only a few years ago the Labour Party conference passed a resolution calling TVEI a divisive new form of educational segregation.

The Viscount of Oxfuird
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House whether or not employers are satisfied with the TVEI programme?

§ Lord Strathclyde
I confirm that employers are very impressed with TVEI and have seen a marked improvement in the quality of the school leavers whom they are taking on.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, returning to the reply that the Minister gave, does he agree that one of the reasons for scepticism about some of the Government's schemes is concern about the amount of resources that will be available?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, we have always maintained that £900 million would be spent, and £900 million will be spent.

§ Lord Wade of Chorlton
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the figure he has given of the expenditure now planned is far in excess of what the noble Lord, Lord Young, declared would be the expenditure at this stage when he explained the scheme to the House some years ago? Will the Minister kindly explain how that fits in with the number of education authorities that are now being offered the scheme?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, as I said in reply to an earlier question, by September 103 out of 132 education authorities in England, Scotland and Wales will be in the extension phase of TVEI. We remain committed to including the remaining 29.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I agree with him that the authorities were not very enthusiastic about the scheme when it started eight years ago? However, it has proved itself and has been very enthusiastically embraced by both pupils and teachers. Does he agree that it is a great shame, the scheme having started in such a very good way, that not only the local authorities but also teachers and the pupils should be disappointed? Is he further aware that I am amazed at his complacency about our ability to have enough technicians and skilled people, as the evidence is all to the contrary?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I understand that some schools and teachers are naturally disappointed. But, as I said, every local authority will be receiving its full share of funding over the life of the programme. That is very commendable.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord if I missed his Answer. Can he say why the budget of TVEI was suddenly cut? I do not recollect that he mentioned that in any of his replies. If he can do so now, it will be much appreciated.

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I can confirm that the overall budget has not been cut.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, that is not the point. The budget has been cut. I am sure that the Minister can confirm that.

Noble Lords
Question!

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the budget has been cut for authorities starting new schemes? That will be damaging in those areas. Does he also agree that it is bad government to make cuts at such short notice?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, on the short notice point, education authorities were advised in May in respect of the coming academic year. On the question of cuts, the overall budget for the overall programme has not been cut.