Postal Charges: Increases (Hansard, 10 July 1990)

§ The Minister of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, Ministers have no formal locus in the setting of letter tariffs which are a matter for the Post Office after consultation with the Post Office Users' National Council.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that that does not answer the question as to whether or not the Government were consulted? It also does not answer the question as to the view of the Government on an increase in prices, which many of us believe is likely to produce a substantial inflationary effect.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the formal responsibility for considering and commenting on those matters rests with the Post Office Users' National Council. The Government keep in informal touch with the Post Office, not least because of the need to ensure that the Post Office meets the financial objectives set for it.

§ Lord Mulley
My Lords, does the Minister consider it likely that we shall ever again attain the situation of past years? If someone posted a letter and the recipient denied receiving it, he was not believed. Today one is absolutely surprised if one receives a letter posted first class the day after it is posted.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I do not claim that the Post Office service is as good as it should be. Equally, I do not think that it is as bad as some people suggest. There have been some important improvements in recent times which I very much welcome.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, as the Minister will be aware, in the report of the Post Office Users' National Council published this month, mention is made of agreed service improvements. Is the Minister also aware that on the same page of the report the council says that those agreed service improvements are not now to be put into effect although the money was found for them in the 1988 tariff increase?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as I said earlier, it is indeed the case that the postal service is not yet as good as it should be and not all of the improvements that the Post Office management is seeking have yet been implemented. However, I am happy to say that Sunday collections have been implemented in the place where my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter lives.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, if money was given to the Post Office to carry out improvements which have not been carried out and the Government have agreed to further increases, why should the money not be spent on the improvements which have already been agreed?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am not sure that the noble Baroness fully understands the situation. The Post Office is not given money for those purposes. It has to earn it. The earnings relate to costs as well as to other new expenditure which many people, including myself, would regard as desirable.

§ Lord Alport
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether, in view of the decline in the value of money between 1840 and 1990, the price of the letter post at the moment is more or less than it was 150 years ago 116 when the penny post was established? If my noble friend does not have the answer at his fingertips will he let me know?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I shall be very happy to let my noble friend have that information if I can find it. However, during the five-year period between March '85–1985, that is—and March 1990 letter prices rose by 11 per cent. less than inflation. I understand that the Post Office estimates that if the proposed rises are implemented as planned in September prices will have risen by 7 per cent. less than inflation in the last five years.

§ Lord Barnett
My Lords, how can the Minister disclaim all government responsibility? Did the Government not set a financial figure for the Post Office, leaving it to the Post Office to decide how to meet that figure?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I said in answer to an earlier question that the Government set financial objectives for the Post Office. Of course, we keep in close touch with the Post Office management to ensure that those objectives are being met.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he has not answered the Question put by his noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter? Apart from those informal contacts and ensuring that financial objectives are met, were the Government consulted about this particular rise in charges and, if so, what attitude did they take? Will the noble Lord tell the House whether the Government have been consulted about the proposal of the chief executive of the Royal Mail, reported in the press, to study the question of early delivery and possibly to eliminate it? If that is on the agenda will we have an opportunity to debate it in this House before any decision is taken?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the answer to any question as to whether the Government have been formally consulted about a matter which is the responsibility of the Post Office authorities is, no.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, will the Minister answer the second part of the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, as to what view the Government have expressed? What is the Government's view on the increase in postal charges? Can we have an answer?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am sorry if my earlier replies were not as clear as the noble Lord would have wished. The Government have no duty to comment formally on these matters and have not done so.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, in connection with my noble friend's answer to my earlier supplementary question in respect of Sunday collections in the area where I live, is he aware that last Saturday I visited my local post-box and saw plainly on it a notice stating that the next collection would be on Monday? How does he reconcile that with his answer?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, when Sunday collections were resumed in the area in which my noble friend lives, and in many other areas, they were not resumed from every post-box in the area but only from selected post-boxes. I shall be very happy to let 117 my noble friend know the boxes in which he should post his letters on a Sunday if he wants them to be collected.

§ Lord Bottomley
My Lords, does the Minister recall that some time ago I had reason to praise the Post Office's services? However, is he aware that since the price has increased the standard has gone down, and for the last three weeks the Whip has not been delivered to my house until late on a Friday whereas most noble Lords receive it first thing in the morning?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am very sorry to hear that the noble Lord has not received his Whip in as timely a way as he ought to. I hope that that is not because his Chief Whip posted it late.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, might it not be possible to reduce or at least peg the price of ordinary letters by increasing the price for delivering junk mail which I believe costs less than ordinary post?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, that is a matter on which I was questioned the other day. Junk mail, as my noble friend describes it, is posted in accordance with tariffs agreed by negotiation between the customer and the Post Office and is not carried at a rate which would subsidise other services.