§ Lord Dormand of Easingtonasked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they have any plans to correct the present imbalance in regional unemployment.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Strathclyde)My Lords, the Government have a wide range of employment, training, enterprise, regional and urban measures which all help in creating employment opportunities and reducing unemployment throughout the United Kingdom. During the three years to December 1989 unemployment rates have fallen in all regions and by most in the West Midlands, in the North and in Wales.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, as the unemployment rate in the South-East region is 3.7 per cent. and in the northern region 9.1 per cent., can the Minister say why after nearly 11 years of unrivalled power there is still such a chronic discrepancy?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, I do not think that the noble Lord should concentrate so much on the discrepancy; he should concentrate upon the fact that the rate is falling much faster in the North than in the South.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, the CBI said in a survey recently, I think it was yesterday, that it saw unemployment as rising. Has the Minister any comment to make on that?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord is well aware that we never make forecasts on unemployment trends.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, perhaps my noble friend will consider whether some of these areas could do a great deal to help themselves by making their regions more attractive to prospective employers? Further, does he recall how Dundee lost the Ford factory, together with 1,000 jobs, solely because of obstruction by the Transport and General Workers' Union?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, my noble friend makes a valid point. Moreover, that is a question which the unions themselves should consider when seeking to look after the interests of their members. However, the point I think he was trying to make is that regions should make themselves look more attractive to potential employers. Indeed, the 294 Government provide a great deal of assistance by way of schemes in order to achieve that aim.
§ Lord Wyatt of WeefordMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the Labour-controlled council of Wigan made a very attractive show of developing its area, so much so that the Tote, of which I am chairman, moved the whole of its credit headquarters to that region because of the inducements offered.
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, that is very welcome and useful information.
§ Lord Mason of BarnsleyMy Lords, the original Question was about the imbalance in regional unemployment. Although the national percentage may be about 5.6 per cent., is the Minister aware that in South Yorkshire it is 10.5 per cent. and that in the Barnsley travel-to-work area it is 11.8 per cent.? The noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, should be aware that the policies of Her Majesty's Government and the rapid closure of coal mines have created this enormous increase of unemployment in those areas. The question is, what are they going to do to balance regional unemployment differences? Further, what part are Her Majesty's Government playing, especially the Department of Trade and Industry, in encouraging the Common Market to introduce the IDOP scheme (the integrated development operations programme) and RECHAR in order to help those areas where the traditional industries are dying?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, the noble Lord referred to the mineworkers and the fact that some coalmines had been closed. However, he should remember that it was actually the strike of 1984 and Mr. Arthur Scargill that led to more mine closures than anything this Government have done.
As regards regional development we have a number of schemes. For example, we have regional selective assistance, English Estates, urban programmes and enterprise zones. Moreover, the employment service provides the Restart scheme, job clubs, YTS, employment training and business growth training——
§ Lord Mason of BarnsleyThey are not working!
§ Lord StrathclydeAll those initiatives are working because unemployment is coming down. The rate is coming down fastest in the areas of greatest need. The noble Lord asked about IDOP. I shall have to look further at that scheme and perhaps I may write to him.
§ Lord Hailsham of Saint MaryleboneMy Lords, in view of the perfectly legitimate interest of noble Lords on all sides of the House as regards various portions of mainland Britain, will my noble friend bear in mind the peculiar situation and needs of Northern Ireland and recognise the fact that the communal difficulties there are not the only cause of the economic troubles? Further, will he also recognise that cure of the economic troubles might assist in resolving the communal differences?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble and learned friend for raising that subject. The situation in Northern Ireland is sometimes forgotten.
§ Baroness Turner of CamdenMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the Government's own figures ——
§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)My Lords, I must point out to the noble Baroness on this occasion that the noble Lord who also wishes to speak at this point has been trying continually for some time to do so.
§ Lord Taylor of GryfeMy Lords, the Minister has given the House an impressive list of various initiatives. However, perhaps he will confirm that they are not in fact working. Is he aware that 15,000 young people emigrated from Scotland to the South last year, as against 5,000 in the year 1976? The National Institute of Social and Economic Research says that between now and the year 2000 there will be a growth in the South-East of 8.1 per cent. as against 2.6 per cent. in the Scottish region. When will the Government take stock of whether their regional policies are working?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, as an immigrant from Scotland I do not see that there is anything particularly wrong in young Scots men and women coming south of the Border. Government policies are working as part of the total renewal of the economy which is why unemployment is coming down and the economy continues to grow.
§ Baroness Turner of CamdenMy Lords, is the Minister aware, particularly in the light of his last statement, that according to the Government's own figures the number of jobs in manufacturing industry fell by 42,000 in the year to November 1989? Does not that support the concern that the CBI expressed yesterday that manufacturing industry is standing on the brink of a recession which will result in further job losses? Is not the decline in manufacturing industry a reflection of what is happening in the regions, because it is in the regions where manufacturing industry employment was strongest?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, I cannot comment on the CBI, but generally speaking we must look at employment issues in the context of rising employment. Figures for the previous quarter show an increase of 429,000 over the previous 12 months in the number of people joining the workforce. We are doing everything we can to ensure that people who have jobs retain them and that those who are unemployed soon find jobs.
§ The Earl of LauderdaleMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that the complaints from Yorkshire and the north of England are pretty parochial when one considers that high unemployment existed in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland for a long time but that the Government's encouragement of the oil industry made an enormous difference so that they too are flourishing?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, I am pleased to hear my noble friend's comment. I suspect that whenever we deal with regional issues to a certain extent we are bound to deal with parochialism.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords——
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, will the Minister give the House an assurance that at some time the Government will examine the CBI's views? Secondly, will they also examine the fact that unemployment by itself brings thousands and thousands of families unhappiness and sometimes internal rows and great unpleasantness? Will the Government now stop saying what a wonderful job they are doing by reducing by thousands the millions of unemployed they created five or six years ago?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, the Government have never created unemployment. The Government are well aware of the unhappiness caused by unemployment which is why we have schemes designed to get long-term unemployed people back to work.
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, I recognise the great effect of the Government's efforts in the North-East, from where I come, where lots of new industries have started. Does my noble friend agree that many of the problems there are caused by small black spots of high unemployment which ruin the figures for the rest of the area? The problem is not solely a matter of jobs but of motivating people who have had a tradition of not working for several years and who therefore experience difficulty getting started in work.
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, that is a fair point. The regions hide areas of substantial prosperity as well as severe black spots.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords ——
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, has been trying to put a question. Perhaps I may suggest that after 10 minutes we take the noble Lord's question and then that of the noble Viscount before moving to the next Question.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord the Leader of the House. Is the Minister aware that it would make sound sense to take seriously the point made by my noble friend and other noble Lords? Is it not a fact that regional imbalances affect the whole of the country and not merely the north of England? Would not the great congestion on the roads and in the demand for services in the South and South-West be ironed out if industry and services were to move to the North? We should all have a much better environment then.
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, relocation is obviously one way to help the statistics along. The noble Lord will no doubt be pleased by the announcement made on 17th January by my noble 297 friend the Paymaster General that well over 16,000 government posts are being relocated from London over the next few years.
Viscount St. DavidsMy Lords, when listing the various advantages that the peripheral areas will have, will the Minister say what effect the community charge will have on those areas?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, that is an interesting question but entirely different from the one on the Order Paper.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, may I refer ——
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, I thought that the original questioner was normally allowed a ——
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, not even on this occasion?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I think I am intervening more than I should. The answer to what the noble Lord suggested is: no. However, the House would, I think, wish him to ask one question; then perhaps we can proceed to the next Question.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord the Leader of the House. I wish quickly to refer to the Minister's reply to my first supplementary question. He said that the rate of unemployment in the northern region was falling fast. Is the Minister aware that, if the rate of employment in that region falls, as it has been doing for some time, it will reach the 1979 level in the year 2002? Is he satisfied with that?
§ Lord StrathclydeMy Lords, we are doing our very best to get people who are unemployed back to work. The noble Lord may wish to know that in the northern region one-third of all unemployed people between the ages of 18 and 59 have started training on ET. It has the highest penetration rate throughout Great Britain and represents an 18 per cent. increase since April 1989. I hope that the downward trend will increase.