Tate Gallery Collection (Hansard, 29 January 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Hesketh)
My Lords, I understand from the Tate Gallery that, as a result of the new hanging, which aims to put on display many works previously in store, there are currently about 660 pictures on display. Approximately 4,000 pictures are in store and some 250 are on loan. The new hanging is a comprehensive and impressive re-ordering and re-presentation of the gallery's collection and was opened last week by the Prime Minister. My right honourable friend the Minister for the Arts has been pleased to add £100,000 in 1990–91 to the generous sponsorship of British Petroleum PLC.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for those interesting figures. Is he aware that under legislation for which I was responsible about 30 years ago, the Tate Gallery has full authority to lend pictures to bodies in official and public buildings? Does the Minister not agree that it would be better that more pictures should be on display in such buildings where some people can see them rather than to have them stored where nobody can?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am sure that all noble Lords are aware of my noble friend's innovative and creative concept as it was originally expounded, and 2 I am sure that great public buildings should take advantage of that possibility. I also point out to your Lordships that in 1979 the gallery space was increased by about 50 per cent., with the addition of the Clore Gallery, which contributed 15 per cent., together with phase one of the Tate Gallery at Liverpool, which contributed 35 per cent. That is a very substantial increase in a mere decade.

§ Baroness Birk
My Lords, is it not a fact that when the Prime Minister opened the reorganised Tate Gallery last week, she said that the Government had the task of trying to keep the great galleries open with the help of the taxpayers? It is quite right that paintings should be loaned to regional and other museums; but does the Minister not agree that that entails additional cost, which makes matters very difficult for the museums and galleries and particularly difficult for the Tate? Does the Minister not agree that, unless the Government assist by giving extra public money, it is very hard to get private sponsors to contribute?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Baroness is aware that in the past decade the financial commitment of this Government has increased by about 40 per cent. in real terms. The initiative announced by my right honourable friend the Minister of State for the Arts only a few months ago of the provision of about a further £200 million is a sure sign of the commitment of this Government to the matters which she has just raised.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, as regards the 4,000 pictures which do not see the light of day, is it not possible for two or three of them to be spared to brighten up the Barry Room? Can the Minister say whether, of those 4,000 pictures, there are some that will probably never be on display? In that case, does the Minister not agree that it would be in the public interest, from several points of view, if they were put on the market?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I hope that I can supply good news to my noble friend. It is a fact that I 3 observed the chairman of the refreshment committee in deep and important conversation with the director of the Tate Gallery. I believe that the Barry Room is gratefully going to be in receipt —if I can speak on behalf of those simple walls as they stand —of about five pictures from the Tate in the not too distant future.

§ Lord Hutchinson of Lullington
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that entirely on its own initiative the Tate Gallery has increased its hanging space quite enormously? That has been achieved by, first, building a magnificent new gallery on Millbank; and, secondly, by creating a gallery in Liverpool twice as large which was visited by over 1 million people in the first year of opening. Does the Minister not agree that that is a matter for rejoicing and praise rather than for crabbing criticism? Regarding selling pictures, does the Minister not further agree that it would be a disaster for the trustees, who look after paintings and works of art for the nation, to sell pictures when the particular taste of the time created an atmosphere which was for disliking one type of painting rather than another? Will the Minister inform the noble Lord who asked this Question that one of the functions of the Tate Gallery, as a national museum of modern art, is to acquire what is best and most significant in each decade —

Noble Lords
Speech!

§ Lord Hutchinson of Lullington
—works which then become part of the heritage of this country, and that that is their overwhelming duty?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I have never made any carping criticism of the Tate Gallery. In my Answer today, I went out of my way to give praise. Concerning the policy of the Tate Gallery, I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Serota, would be the first to stand up in protest if I were to insinuate that the Office of Arts and Libraries was in any way to interfere with that policy.

§ Lord Merrivale
My Lords, I ask my noble friend the Minister to use his best endeavours and influence—perhaps with the support of the noble Baroness, Lady Serota —to see that J. S. Copley's painting of the Great Siege of Gibraltar, on loan to the convent from the Tate Gallery, remains in Gibraltar, where it should rightly reside.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I shall certainly take my noble friend's remarks to heart and draw them to the attention of my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, can consideration be given to showing more pictures from the Chantry Bequest, especially as taste has now changed and these paintings are much more appreciated than they were some years ago? They are hardly ever seen; and many have never been shown.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I think it would be probably more than fair if I were to give a commitment to the House to draw the Hansard 4 report of this Question to the attention of the director of the Tate Gallery so that he can make his own decisions with regard to it.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, is it not quite incredible that 4,000 paintings are stored in the vaults of one gallery? How long are they destined to stay there? Why cannot more of them be circulated through the regional galleries?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, there are enjoyable problems and there are disagreeable ones. It is an enjoyable problem that this country has a treasure house unequalled anywhere in the world.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, is it not a fact that the director has already said that he intends to rotate the paintings so that for six months some paintings will be on display and then for the next six months another set will be on display? That is one of the ways in which the 4,000 paintings said to be in storage will be seen. They are not really in storage; they are being rotated.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely correct. I have gone to some trouble this afternoon not to prejudge decisions made by the director and the trustees of the gallery.

§ Lord Grimond
My Lords, can the Minister tell us what proposals the trustees themselves have for this large quantity of pictures that are never seen? Do they hold out any hope that they will ever be seen? How many public buildings can be expected to take on the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter? What is proposed for this huge sunken galleon of pictures which lies apparently in the vaults of the Tate?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, all noble Lords will be indebted to the noble Lord, Lord Annan, for the point that he made earlier. We do not have a sunken galleon; we have a great reserve which is rotated.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, is it not also a fact that the director has stated that anyone is entitled to see the paintings in storage, though not perhaps under such advantageous circumstances as obtain in the National Gallery, where the paintings in storage are hung very well? Nevertheless, they can be seen by anyone who wishes to do so.

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I believe that is correct.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that however frequently the pictures are rotated it still means that 4,000 are at any one time not visible except under the special arrangements to which the noble Lord referred? Will he encourage the directors of the Tate Gallery to be a little quicker and a little more willing in the lending of pictures to official buildings where there is of course no question of the expense that is involved in respect of provincial galleries?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I shall certainly draw that point to the attention of my right honourable 5 friend. I remind my noble friend that for there to be a lender, there also has to be a happy borrower.

§ Lord Northfield
My Lords, in America recently I was offered for the Tate Gallery the portrait of the wife of Sir Henry Tate, the benefactor who founded the gallery. However, the owners of the portrait say that they will be happy to give it to the Tate Gallery if the gallery will hang it. It is the companion portrait to that of Sir Henry Tate which has at last been hung in the gallery. Does the Minister realise that the fame of the gallery in the sense of having too many pictures stored away has crossed the Atlantic and is not confined to this country?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, again I have to point out that it is not the Government's policy to interfere with the picture hanging policy of the director and the trustees of the gallery.