Common Land Forum Report (Hansard, 17 January 1990)

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, it remains the Government's aim to introduce comprehensive legislation based broadly on the forum recommendations at a suitable opportunity when parliamentary time permits.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I thank the Minister, but is he aware that I have had a similar reply about twice a year for the last four years? Is he aware that over three-quarters of our commons, which are very precious to most of us, are at risk under the present legislation? I understand that agreement with the Moorlands Association on the last outstanding argument was reached at the end of last summer. Will the Minister say why more priority cannot now be given to this important subject?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, as I said, it is still our intention to bring in legislation. But we should like to see consensus reached between the various interested parties. Unfortunately, that is not yet the case. On the question of the common lands under threat, the evidence we have available indicates that only a small number of commons have been deregistered in the past few years.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that to the best of my knowledge the Moorlands Association agrees that there should be a certain number of miles of footpath per thousand hectares of moorland and that that would be the ideal and satisfactory solution for all those, including myself, who enjoy walking?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, we have received further representations from the Moorlands Association which we are now considering together with representations from other interested bodies.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, in declaring my interest as president of the Council for the Protection of Rural Wales, perhaps I may ask the Minister to confirm that agreement was reached between all bodies concerned with common land in the Common Land Forum, which was in itself a remarkable feat; that afterwards the Moorlands Association alone stood out against legislation although, as the noble Lord said, it has now come into line; and that there is therefore no reason why legislation should not be introduced to deal with an urgent matter. In order 634 to help the Government—I always like to help the Government—perhaps I may suggest that the passages concerned with the merger of the Nature Conservancy Council and the Countryside Commission should be omitted from the Environment Protection Bill and a measure for the governance of common land substituted.

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord will have an opportunity to debate the question of the Nature Conservancy Council when we debate the Environment Protection Bill. On the noble Lord's first question, I understand that the Moorlands Association and the other interested bodies are not yet in agreement. We consider it desirable that there should be a great degree of agreement on this important matter. We consider that the effective operation of any future legislation will be much better assured if the legislation has the support of all interested groups.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the evidence from the Countryside Commission is that large areas are being lost and are at risk, that applications are being submitted for areas as large as 1,000 acres to be deregulated, and that there might be development? Who are the other interested parties causing the hold-up?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I understand the anxiety of the noble Baroness with regard to registered common lands and her wish, and the wish of other noble Lords, that they remain so. That would be one of the aims of any legislation.

§ Lord Moran
My Lords, is the Minister aware that in many parts of the United Kingdom, especially Wales, the wildlife interest of common land is damaged by the use of the open hill by motorcycles, particularly motorcycle clubs, and four-wheel drive vehicles? Will he ensure that, when legislation is introduced, it covers the use of vehicles and prevents vehicles being used, except in special circumstances, off the road on common land?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I should be happy to consider the noble Lord's point. A great number of different interests must be reconciled. There are the graziers, the local authorities, those concerned with conservation, those concerned with public access and, last but not least, the owners themselves.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that demand for access is not from walkers? They want only footpaths. The demand is purely for political reasons. Is he further aware that full access by people in pressurised areas would greatly damage the wildlife and would be contrary to the rules laid down by the EC for the preservation of wildlife?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, there are different views and we continue to receive representations from different interested bodies. As long as we continue to do so, we have not abandoned hope that a greater measure of agreement may be possible.

§ Baroness White
My Lords, does the Minister recognise that if the Government want 100 per cent. agreement when there are obvious conflicts of interest we shall never have legislation on common land? Is it not therefore the path of statesmanship to recognise that one must obtain the best agreement possible? Most of us are now of the opinion that we have obtained the best possible with the remarkable co-operation of people who recognise that their interests are not always consonant one with another but who are prepared to give way to a certain extent. The Government should show a little statesmanship for a change.

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I take the point made by the noble Baroness. But we should like to see a greater measure of agreement than now exists.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, the noble Lord did not answer part of my question. Who are the people who are holding up this legislation by not agreeing?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I just gave the noble Baroness a list of the various bodies that we consider to be interested in this matter.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, is the noble Lord prepared to report this exchange to his right honourable friend to make sure that my noble friend Lady Nicol does not have to ask exactly the same Question in six months' time?

§ Lord Reay
My Lords, I shall be quite happy to give the assurance that I shall report this exchange to my right honourable friend.