Education: HM Inspectorate Report (Hansard, 20 February 1990)

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, for 1990–91 £485 million is available in annual capital guidelines for capital expenditure on local authority maintained institutions. This compares with only £352 million under the old system of allocations for 1989–90. It represents an increase of nearly 40 per cent. It is for local education authorities to decide how to divide their capital resources among schools, colleges, adult education institutes and youth services.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that response. Does she agree with the report that demands are increasing on both adult education services as a consequence of changes in demography and the changes in Government policy relating to Care in the Community; and on the youth service because of the way in which it is responding to the needs of the disadvantaged among our young people? In view of that does not the Minister agree that resources are needed in that area to provide adequate accommodation for those essential services?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I certainly agree that demand for that service is increasing. However, it is reasonable to say that it is for local education authorities themselves to determine priorities. They have annual capital guidelines but they are able to 143 supplement that with capital receipts and also with revenue taken from the community charge. They can levy the community charge to increase revenue in this area. It is very much a matter for local education authorities to determine priorities for their own areas.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is the Minister aware that every time we ask these questions we are told that it is a matter for the local education authorities? The adult education service and the youth service need some statement from the Government to show that they believe in them and they want to help them. The shift in funding policies as regards the Workers' Educational Association, extra-mural work and local management in schools all make the future of the adult education service and the youth service look uncertain. We should like some statement of commitment from the Government.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I understand the point about uncertainty. This is a difficult time for local education authorities and for the youth service. However, it is very much up to LEAs to determine their own priorities. The party of the noble Baroness has said many times that we at central level should not be prescriptive about how local authorities spend their money. Therefore, it is very much for local authorities to respond to the needs in their local areas.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, is the noble Baroness who is speaking on behalf of the Government aware that the DES itself has identified a backlog amounting to £3 billion in repairs to school buildings? In those circumstances does she not agree that the additional amount of money for capital that has been identified is far too small? Will she tell the House whether the DES will be asking for new money for capital in the light of the HMI report?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, certainly a backlog has been identified, but I must refer to my original Answer which displays the Government's concern about the need for extra capital expenditure, which is up from £352 million to £485 million. It is also fair to say that LEAs can supplement that expenditure by using capital receipts. The way in which capital receipts work now for local authorities means that they can spend 50 per cent. on capital projects and they can use the other 50 per cent. to reduce debt which in turn releases revenue to be spent on capital projects.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there is great scope for savings on this issue? In the county in which I live there is a private school and a state school. The private school had its sports hall burnt down and the state school had its refectory burnt down. Both acts were committed by the same arsonist. The private school has now been completely repaired but, because of bureaucratic delay, the bulldozers have not even started to move into the state school to start clearing up the rubble of the refectory. That delay is unnecessarily costing the state money. It is also imposing an unnecessary 144 charge on community charge payers and children are being deprived of proper education. This is a case of incompetence rather than lack of money.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I cannot comment on the specific problem that my noble friend raises. However, I can say that paragraph 86 of the report states that there is a need: To improve the management, monitoring and evaluation of existing provision". It is also true to say that LEAs can respond to their needs in a variety of ways. There are some exciting and innovative ways of responding to those needs through using village halls, school buildings, higher education buildings, further education buildings and through involving the community itself. There is a variety of responses to meet this excessive need.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, my noble friends Lady Lockwood and Lady David have sought assurances. It is all very well for the Minister to say that the money is there but that is not true because the money is spread over such a wide area that there is insufficient left for the services referred to in the Question. The essential services need that money; therefore there is insufficient money left for adult education and the youth service.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I cannot agree with the premise of the comments made by the noble Lord. I have given the figures for the money that is allocated from the Government. Those figures have increased year on year. It is very much a matter for local education authorities to determine how that money will be spent and to determine their priorities. In some areas the money will be used within the local community and in other areas it will be used for local schools. Therefore I cannot agree on a particular mechanism. An alternative would be for the Government to prescribe how the money should be spent. I do not think the noble Lord would agree with that.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, did the noble Baroness mean to say that in the end the Government really do not care how local authorities spend money? The Minister seemed to be saying that the Government were perfectly happy to let authorities spend the money in any way they wished. Does the Minister not find it paradoxical that she has a totally laissez-faire attitude to local education authorities as regards the adult education service but that she is perfectly happy to provide central government funds for city technology colleges which no one wants at all?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I do not believe that the Government take a laissez-faire attitude or that they are not concerned about the quality of education. The very fact that the report exists is indicative of the Government's concern. It is this kind of report which makes local authorities reconsider the way in which they provide services. The hope is that every education authority will look at the report and make some evaluation of the service it provides in the light of the report.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that, although the noble Lord, Lord Peston, is entitled to say that he does not like city technology colleges, it is a bit much to say that no one likes them? I have a great deal of evidence to show that they are widely appreciated.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, city technology colleges are another matter. However, I think the noble Lord will know that I am an enthusiast of this innovative educational experiment.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I hope the noble Baroness accepts that I do not wish to have a debate with her and her noble friend Lord Beloff. However, the point I sought to emphasise is that there is no doubt whatever about the enormous public support for the youth and adult education services in this country. Is she not aware that many people will look askance at the fact that the Government do not appear to think that that service is worthy of the highest priority?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I do not accept that. I believe that the Government are concerned about youth and adult education. It may be appropriate for me, in reply to this point, to say that the Department of Education and Science is developing a policy on the youth service in partnership with LEAs and voluntary organisations through a series of national conferences. The first of these on the theme of a youth service curriculum was addressed last December by my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State from the Department of Education and Science. There will be other conferences.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the report of the chief inspector is to the Secretary of State? Therefore, would it not be appropriate for him to make some comment on the areas where he feels there is a shortfall in the service?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the use of the report will be widespread throughout the education service. It may be appropriate for me to point out that the quote in the Question asked by the noble Baroness comes from paragraph 13. It does not refer to the youth and community service at all.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, has the Minister not looked at page 3, paragraph 13, which refers quite specifically to the youth and adult services? That paragraph describes the accommodation for that service as: old, drab, badly maintained and inappropriate for its purpose".

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, it is important to read out the whole sentence which states: Accommodation in further education varies markedly within and between colleges—

§ Baroness David
My Lords, I must interrupt the noble Baroness.

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, The sentence continues: Some teaching areas are well designed and modern while others are old, drab and in need of refurbishment". That refers to accommodation for further education but it refers only to some accommodation.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords—

Noble Lords
Order!

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, we have had a pretty good go round the course. If the House wishes, perhaps we should go on to the next business.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords—

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, if the noble Baroness will forgive me, I must say that there is always one difficulty for noble Lords and noble Baronesses which is that they need to make themselves heard. To make themselves heard they must have the sympathy of the House. We have spent 12 minutes beyond what the House itself believes is right for the length of Question Time. I suggest that if your Lordships wish, we should pass to the next business.

Noble Lords
Hear, hear!