Benefits: Housing and Rate Rebates (Hansard, 8 February 1990)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Henley)
My Lords, this year 4.5 million households are receiving rate rebates and 0.9 million claimants in Scotland are receiving community charge rebates. Housing benefit for rent goes to 4.2 million tenants, most of whom also receive rate or community charge rebates.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, I am grateful for that information. The noble Lord mentioned that the vast majority of people on housing benefit will already have qualified for the maximum rebate on their rates. Can he tell the House what provision the Government intend to make for those people who are in receipt of rate rebates and who live in an area in which the poll tax will be higher than those rates? The 20 per cent. charge —if I make myself clear —would still be the same. In other words, does he agree that their benefit will be further eroded because the 20 per cent. rebate on rates that they receive will probably be less than the payment that they will have to make for the poll tax?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I am not sure whether I quite understand the noble Lord. That 20 per cent. is set on an average and will give the payer of the community charge the right to demand accountability from the authority. It is up to him then to vote for an authority which will keep the charge at that figure.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, the maximum rebate is 80 per cent. Many thousands of people receive that 80 per cent., which means that they now pay 20 per cent. However, 20 per cent. of the rates will amount to less than 20 per cent. of the poll tax. In other words, they will pay more poll tax than they currently pay for rates. Can the Minister say whether those people will be compensated for that increase.?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, income support rates were set to take account of that 20 per cent. Quite simply, people can vote for an authority which will keep down their community charge.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, that surely is not good enough. Is the Minister telling the House that the 20 per cent. is based on the Government's false figure of an average of £278 per person per annum or that it will be based upon the amount that people will actually pay? There is, for example, the profligate Tory-controlled Berkshire County Council which says that the poll tax will be £450 and not £278.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, it is pure speculation as to the level at which any local authority will set its community charge. It is up to the electors to vote for an authority which keeps down the community charge to a reasonable figure.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that that means that the Government will call an early general election so that the people of this country can make a decision on how their tax rates are to be fixed this year?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I do not think that the calling of a general election is a matter for me.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, can the Minister tell us the position of a couple now on income support? As the poll tax is supposed to be for individuals, will each individual receive the 80 per cent. rebate?

§ Lord Henley
Yes, my Lords.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, can the Minister say whether the current levels of housing benefit will be sufficient to cover the very much higher level of rents that already are becoming payable?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, no doubt the noble lord will know that housing benefit is not set at a particular figure. It depends on the income of the individual and on his rent.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, is the Minister aware of the circular dated 24th January from the Department of Social Security which states: It is highly unlikely, on the basis of experience in Scotland last year, that landlords will reduce their rent charges to take account of the abolition of rates"? Is he further aware that the circular went on to suggest that the housing benefit payments should take account of that? In other words, it requires the taxpayer to provide the wherewithal to give the private landlord a windfall profit.
How do the Government intend to help those tenants on low incomes who do not receive housing benefit and who will not be eligible for a poll tax rebate? Does the Minister agree that they must pay the full amount of poll tax and the same rent as before, which has not been reduced because of the abolition of rates, or face eviction?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, when they renegotiate the rent with the landlord it is necessary for them to take that into account.