National Curriculum: Consultations (Hansard, 7 February 1990)

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, perhaps I may start by wishing the noble Lord a very happy birthday.

Noble Lords
Hear, hear!

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the answer to the Question is yes. In order to implement the national curriculum in a reasonable timescale, it has been necessary to conduct the consultations so far at a brisk pace. Nevertheless, there has been a considerable volume of responses. However, in future we intend to allow more time for comments on national curriculum proposals wherever necessary.

§ Lord Bottomley
My Lords, I should like to thank the Minister for her kind remarks and noble Lords for the way in which they supported her. I am obliged to all your Lordships.
Is the Minister aware that the Secretary of State has set up a working group to advise him on history? Bearing in mind that the 1939–45 war was the greatest event in world history this century, ought not that subject to be included as a compulsory subject in the national curriculum?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the Education Reform Act makes it clear why history, and geography, are compulsory subjects within the national curriculum. The group referred to by the noble Lord is an independent body set up to make recommendations to the Secretary of State. There has been no question of dictating what those recommendations should be. However, it will be perfectly right and proper for the Secretary of State to respond to the group's provisional proposals when they are made known to him.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, when will the report of the history working group be published? It seems to have been delayed for a considerable time.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I do not know the answer to that question. If I can obtain the answer, I shall write to the noble Baroness.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, will the noble Baroness clarify her reply? We want the curriculum council to be as independent as possible. However, some of the things it is up to seem a trifle bizarre. As my noble 834 friend Lord Bottomley pointed out, it is odd that children in our country might well be taught history but know nothing about the Second World War. That applies to other subjects. The teaching of geography may go to one of two extremes: either children will know only where things are or they will know where nothing is. There does not seem to be much balance. Does the Secretary of state not feel that, without excessively interfering in the independence of the bodies, he should take a more positive interest?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, it is important to note the concern of the noble Lord about this rather vexed subject. It is also worth noting that there was widespread concern before the Education Reform Bill came before the House about the subject and how it was taught. Therefore, I hope that he will agree with me that to have a proper framework within which to teach the subject and for the Secretary of State to be properly advised about the content of the subject is a positive way forward.

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, referring to the Question which my noble friend answered yesterday when the actions of the Secretary of State were mentioned I should like to ask this. Does not what we heard yesterday indicate that it is true that the Secretary of State consults widely, listens carefully and, I trust, responds suitably?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I am grateful for that remark. It is true that the Secretary of State listens to the anxieties of teachers. All the points are being noted, particularly those raised at Question time. We have a Secretary of State who is responding to the anxieties of teachers.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I was not anxious to denigrate the Secretary of State today. I can do that on many other occasions. Rather, I was anxious to be constructive. Therefore, I ask the noble Baroness again whether she is confident that the anxieties will be taken on board. I shall concentrate on history because it is a subject which interests us a great deal. We do not want to tell history teachers what they must do; but does the noble Baroness agree that one could raise an eyebrow or two occasionally by asking them what they think they are up to?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I always raise my eyebrows when the noble Lord, Lord Peston, rises to speak. I know what an authority he is on the subject of education. One of the anxieties that existed before the Education Reform Bill became an Act was the degree to which British history formed part of the syllabus. I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Bottomley, will agree that that was dealt with in the interim report. It has been established that there should be a balance of 60 per cent. British history and 40 per cent. World history in any new curriculum.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Baroness give an assurance that British history in Wales includes Welsh history?

§ Baroness Blatch
Point noted, my Lords.

§ Baroness Platt of Writtle
My Lords, is my noble friend also aware that there has been criticism of developments in the teaching of design and technology? Will my right honourable friend the Secretary of State equally take note of those comments and ensure that a rigorous curriculum is provided?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I entirely take the point of my noble friend, and I shall convey her remarks to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, will the honourable Lady — — the noble Lady — —

Noble Lords
The noble Baroness!

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, will the noble Baroness ensure that one of the subjects to be taught to young people today is the rise and fall of communism, and particularly its fall?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I hope that I am honourable and noble. The point raised by the noble Lord is very interesting, and I am certain that it will form part of the content of any history syllabus.