Cambodia: Self-Determination (Hansard, 5 February 1990)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, it is generally agreed that there can be no place in the future of Cambodia for Pol Pot and his murderous associates. The Cambodian people deserve the right to decide their own future, free from the fear of Khmer Rouge atrocities, foreign occupation or civil war. We are actively helping to promote self-determination for Cambodians through free, fair and democratic elections. We and our fellow permanent members of the United Nations Security Council are working to carry forward the proposals made by the Foreign Minister of Australia for an enhanced role for the United Nations.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that the people of Cambodia are one of the most ancient civilisations in the world? They have suffered the most horrible regime that mankind has probably ever seen. The United Nations record in trying to relieve those people of the murderous activities of the communists under Pol Pot is not much of an encouragement to anyone. Will the Minister say whether the Australian proposals will now be made a reality in the interests of ensuring that the sham organisations which Pol Pot still controls will not be given power even by the United Nations?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, our repugnance for the Khmer Rouge is well known. However, as I said in my original Answer, we shall do our best to play our part as a permanent member of the five members of the United Nations Security Council. We attended the first meeting in Paris on 15th and 16th January, and we look forward to attending another meeting later this month. The Australian proposals for greater United Nations involvement are currently the best way forward.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, we on this side fully agree with and support everything the Minister said in his original reply to the Question. In view of the fact that the Minister has just recently returned from Thailand, can he confirm that the fund from the UN which should be used to help the refugees in Cambodia is used for that purpose and that it is not used by the Khmer Rouge army? Further, in view of the dangerous advances being made by the Khmer Rouge at the present time, does the Minister agree that the implementation of the Australian peace plan now takes on an even greater urgency?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, as regards the noble Lord's first point, during my visit to Thailand recently I visited Site Two on the border where some 140,000 or more Cambodian refugees or displaced persons live under the United Nations border relief organisation. I once again made it clear that any funds we provide to that organisation should be solely for the use of those refugees and similar people, and that none should go to the Khmer Rouge. I was assured that everything possible is done to prevent such supplies going to the Khmer Rouge. On the second point on the Australian proposals, as I said, there has been one meeting of the permanent five members of the United Nations Security Council and there is a proposal for a follow-up meeting later this month. In the meantime, I hope that those two members of the permanent five most closely involved will gain agreement from their clients that this is the best way forward. We hope in the not too distant future to have a reconvening of the Paris conference where all parties could reach a settlement.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, are the Government working towards the replacement of the representation at the United Nations of Cambodia by the coalition government which is dominated by the Khmer Rouge, by representatives of the Hen Sun government, which is now universally recognised to be the de facto government of Cambodia and is thought to be doing a reasonably good job under very difficult circumstances? Will the Minister also tell us the outcome of the diplomatic mission to Cambodia which took place just before Christmas whose aim was to find out Cambodia's needs for development aid?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the matter of the occupancy of the United Nations seat by Cambodia was settled back in October for the time being. However, we recognise that we shall have to return later to that matter. There is no doubt in my mind that that would form a part of the peace 517 proposals if they proceed. The occupation of that seat will be a key factor in that process. Regarding our own mission, which involved one person from the Overseas Development Administration and one of our diplomats from Bangkok, they reported back to the non-governmental organisations at the beginning of this month, and we look forward to seeing further proposals put forward by NGOs for humanitarian aid within Cambodia. We have set aside £1 million for that purpose.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, this may be a difficult question to answer, but I should like to ask whether there is any danger that the Khmer Rouge might occupy most of Cambodia before the Security Council is able to act and before the Australian plan is put into operation.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that is a difficult question to answer because of what is happening day by day on the ground in Cambodia. However, the current situation is that the Phnom Penh government hold around 90 per cent. of the territory, and the resistance groups —not just the Khmer Rouge but also other resistance groups —hold about 10 per cent. It appears —I can only say that it appears to be the case —that there is more or less stalemate on the ground at the moment.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that there is now an urgent necessity for the United Nations and international forces to work swiftly as words are not enough? Words are beginning to turn sour because there is not enough action. Does the Minister not also agree that the United Nations should put some pressure on the Chinese communist government to stop supplying Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge with the arms that they use to murder their own people? Does not the Minister also agree that the European Parliament could support the possibility of the Hen Sun grouping with an international force which could then start to bring some form of peace to that troubled land?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I agree with the need for urgency which the noble Lord has expressed. However, the meeting of the five permanent members on the Australian proposals was a good sign. China is one of those permanent members. Therefore we should draw encouragement from the fact that China put its name to the 16-point plan that came from that meeting.