HL Deb 06 December 1990 vol 524 cc294-300

4.40 p.m.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (The Earl of Caithness)

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The Statement is as follows: "With permission, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a statement on the hostages in Iraq and Kuwait.

"President Saddam Hussein has today addressed a letter to the Iraqi National Assembly requesting that the assembly 'allow all foreigners on whom restrictions were placed to enjoy the freedom of travel and to lift these restrictions'. This appears to mean that all foreign hostages in both Iraq annd Kuwait will, once the assembly has given its approval, be free to leave.

"The Government welcome this implementation of one of the UN Security Council's requirements. We have throughout been pressing for the release of all hostages. We are delighted for all the hostages and their families. They have suffered with great dignity and courage over the past weeks and months. We are in close contact with our embassy in Baghdad over the practical arrangements for the departure of all British citizens trapped in Iraq and Kuwait. The ambassador is actively seeking early clarification from the Iraqi authorities. We will then do everything in our power to help those concerned get home as soon as practicable.

"Saddam Hussein should now implement in full the UN resolutions, withdraw unconditionally from Kuwait and allow the legitimate government to return to that country".

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

4.42 p.m.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for repeating the Statement. I am sure that we all welcome the news about the hostages and the tremendous relief that it will bring to them and their families after four months of worry and apprehension. It is presumably a gesture by the Iraqi Government in response to the offer of meetings by President Bush. It may also be evidence that sanctions are taking effect.

The Statement says that the Government are in close touch with the embassy in Baghdad. Can the noble Earl say whether any details are available concerning, for example, the rate at which hostages may be released and the dates on which they may be released? Is it the case that the Government will be expected to make transport arrangements to bring the hostages back to this country? Can the Minister say how many British hostages are left both in Iraq and in Kuwait?

We recognise that Saddam Hussein is merely complying with international law on human rights. However, there is a certain vagueness in the Statement, which uses the phrase "This appears to mean". Can the noble Earl clarify that point?

There is another point to be considered. As the noble Earl is aware, the Government have been presented with a bill for the upkeep of our hostages in Iraq. Is the Foreign Office prepared to meet that bill and will there be an offset in respect of the fees that Iraqi students in this country have been unable to pay to universities and colleges? While the Iraqis say that we owe money to them, they certainly owe money to us. Furthermore, what will be the position of the Kuwaitis who are being held in Iraq? They also are hostages. Will they now be entitled to return to their homes?

While again welcoming this belated development, we must recognise and emphasise that the treatment of the hostages in Iraq during the past four months has been contrary to international law.

Finally, we must bear in mind that this is only a start and only one of the conditions laid down in one of the United Nations resolutions—Resolution 664. We must therefore continue to support and sustain the United Nations in all these matters.

Lord Bonham-Carter

My Lords, I too should like to thank the noble Earl for the Statement that he has just read to us and for telling us the good news about the British hostages. It is good news for them and for their lamilies. I too hope that he will let us know how soon he hopes to be able to bring those people back. I should also like to associate myself with what the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos, said regarding the Kuwaiti hostages, who do not appear to be covered by the Iraqi proposal.

I should like to add that on the basis of the Statement there are no grounds for congratulating President Saddam Hussein for ceasing to behave unlawfully and in a wholly uncivilised fashion. There may be grounds for relief, but there are certainly no grounds for congratulation.

I note that President Bush has said that he welcomes the move as a hopeful sign. That is an unobjectionable statement. I do not know to what extent, in the view of Her Majesty's Government, it is connected with the withdrawal by the United States of its objections to a Middle East peace conference. It would seem that the two events, coming so close together, may well be connected.

I should also like to associate myself with the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, in saying that this is merely one step and that there are a great many other conditions which have to be fulfilled before we can say that real progress has been made.

4.47 p.m.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos, the Leader of the Opposition, and to the noble Lord, Lord Bonham-Carter, for welcoming the Statement. I agree entirely with the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos, that Saddam Hussein is merely rectifying the crime that he committed in breaking international law. The Government agree with the noble Lord, Lord Bonham-Carter, that that is not a ground for congratulation. It is a ground for relief and for thankfulness on the part of the hostages and their families but not for congratulation to Saddam Hussein.

We believe that the decision to release foreign hostages must be a sign that the pressure on Saddam Hussein is beginning to tell. I echo what both noble Lords said that this is but a start in the procedure. There are other conditions of the Security Council resolutions which Saddam Hussein has yet to fulfil.

The noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, asked for details of the rate of release of the hostages and the date of their release. I do not have much detailed in Formation at the moment and I understand that the matter is being discussed in the Iraqi National Assembly at the moment. However, we are in contact with the airlines and we shall make all the necessary arrangements as soon as it is clear that the detainees are able to leave and that they have exit visas in their passports.

We believe that there are about 440 British nationals in hiding in Kuwait. A further six are detained in Kuwait. Approximately 355 British nationals are at liberty in Iraq, although not free to leave the country, and a further 342 are detained by the Iraqis at strategic sites.

The noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, asked for further clarification of the words in the Statement "This appears to mean". I cannot give him further clarification because the position is not clear at the moment. As I said, we are in touch with our embassy in Baghdad awaiting clarification from the Iraqis. I can assure the House, and in particular the noble Lord who asked the question, that I shall let it be known as soon as we have further details so that the information can be included in the Official Report. Both noble Lords raised the question of the position of the Kuwaitis. We believe that Saddam Hussein must allow all foreigners, including the Kuwaitis, to leave. We do not accept at all the Iraqi claim that Kuwait is part of Iraq. The letter that Saddam Hussein addressed referred to allowing all foreigners to leave. Let us hope that he fulfils that obligation as well. Both noble Lords summed up the position. We must continue with the firm stance that the United Nations is taking. We must give full support to the further implementation of all Security Council resolutions.

4.50 p.m.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend able to answer the question, which I think was put by the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, as to whether it was proposed, somewhat impudently, to demand a charge for the maintenance of the hostages while they have been detained? Is that a fact? If so, would it make more sense and be better international law if a payment were made to them by Saddam Hussein by way of compensation for his wholly unlawful act in detaining them, in many cases under conditions of great discomfort for a considerable period and without the slightest justification?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, for not having answered that question. For people who are in financial difficulties in Iraq, we are paying the hotel, food and living expenses and providing some cash for emergencies to buy essential comforts. We can also help some of those in hiding in Kuwait. However, as my noble friend will understand, getting funds to them is difficult.

The Lord Bishop of Bradford

My Lords, I am sure that if he were in the Chamber my friend the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury would also wish to express a welcome for the Statement that has been made. He and other Church leaders throughout the country have been exhorting their congregations and the nation in general to pray for the release of the hostages. I feel certain that this coming weekend he will wish to exhort the Churches to give thanks for this Statement.

I am in a unique position because of my work to encourage moderate Moslem leadership throughout the country and particularly in Bradford. There are 43 mosques in Bradford. I can assure the House that the moderate leadership in that city will also wish to welcome the Statement and give thanks for it.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I am most grateful for the words of the right reverend Prelate. I am sure that the whole House appreciated them too.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, although this has been an extremely encouraging development, none of it could have happened unless the free world—the Americans and the British in particular—had not decided to take a military stand against Saddam Hussein? Despite what others may think, that military stance was the first and most successful step toward getting the hostages released. There must be full-scale discussions to try to resolve the problem without a war.

Does the noble Earl agree that military forces in Saudi Arabia must remain there until Saddam Hussein leaves Kuwait and resolves that he will release all the hostages that he now holds? The key has always been our determination to meet his vulgar force with a better, civilised force.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, the noble Lord reaffirmed what I am sure is the wish of the House; namely, fully to support the United Nations. The Government would echo that sentiment. There exist a number of Security Council resolutions and the military option is there to be used if necessary. The noble Lord said that the first step was the reaction of the Americans and the British. I would say that that was the second step. The first step was the invasion by a fellow UN country—Iraq—which had already agreed the borders of Kuwait under United Nations' auspices in 1962.

Lord Tordoff

My Lords, perhaps the Minister can assist me in relation to foreign nationals other than Europeans or Americans who may come within the ambit of this release. Does he know whether there are many other nationals involved, particularly from the East? Could there be a consequent refugee problem? If so, are Her Majesty's Government prepared to do everything in their power to assist those people in getting them back to their rightful homes?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I understand that there are a considerable number of people involved from other countries, particularly the Far East, the Middle East and the sub-continent—that is to say, Indians and Pakistanis. A number of them have been able to leave but some have not. We hope that there will not be a refugee problem. The letter from President Saddam Hussein to the National Assembly asked "to allow all foreigners". We hope therefore that they will be free to go as well.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, in an aside, the noble Lord, Lord Bonham-Carter, raised an issue which seems to me to be crucial to the future development of this situation. He referred to the fact that last night there were reports from the United Nations that the United States is now offering the possibility of an international peace conference on the Middle East. That is something new. The noble Earl did not reply to that point, which I do not think was put in the form of a question. However, can he tell the House what is the information in the Foreign Office regarding the attitude of the United States towards an international peace conference as reported last night? Has the United States changed its mind? If so, what is the attitude of the British Government to the new proposition, which brings a totally new dimension into the situation?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, there has been a proposal for a Security Council resolution on the Middle East and negotiations are under way at the moment about the wording and the timing, particularly so far as concerns the Occupied Territories. We should welcome such a discussion, as we have said before. There is no change in government policy on that point. What is clear and remains government policy is that first of all Saddam Hussein must get out of Kuwait.

Baroness Masham of Ilton

My Lords, perhaps I may ask my noble kinsman a brief question which has not been put so far today. Does he agree with me that it must be very sad for the families who have lost relatives owing to the stress of being a hostage? Will there be any compensation from the Iraqi Government for those families?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, we sympathise very much with the families which have suffered in whatever way from the invasion of an innocent country by a very powerful aggressor, and particularly those which have suffered loss of life. We have always said that we must seek every means to make sure that Saddam Hussein does not benefit in any way from his aggression.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, will the noble Earl clarify what he said in his reply to me? He spoke of a new United Nations' Security Council resolution. Does he refer to a new resolution which includes the proposal for an international peace conference? If not, will he say whether he knows if the United States has changed its policy towards having an international peace conference? On the face of it, it would seem that last night's report—not today's but last night's—has had sc me bearing on the attitude of the Iraqis towards hostages.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I answered the question that the noble Lord first put to me. I said that negotiations were under way at the moment. Until we have the result of those negotiations it would be wrong for me to say anything which might mislead the House.

Lord Holme of Cheltenham

My Lords, do Her Majesty's Government and the Minister agree that, in the words reported from President Bush and the White House staff who are in South America at the moment, this is a hopeful sign?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, it is but a first step. Yes, we are pleased for the hostages and their families. There are no grounds for patting Saddam Hussein on the back and saying, "Well done". All he is doing is to rectify a grievous crime, breaking international law. He has a lot more to do yet.

Lord Holme of Cheltenham

My Lords, with respect, I did not ask whether Saddam Hussein should be patted on the back. I asked whether the Government agreed that this was a hopeful sign.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, if the National Assembly agrees and, when we find out the full details, all these foreigners who want to go are permitted to have exit visas and are allowed out, that is hopeful.

Lord Mancroft

My Lords, can my noble friend explain further the answer that he gave to the question of my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter? I am not absolutely clear whether he meant that Her Majesty's Government expect people to pay for the privilege of being imprisoned by Saddam Hussein, that the Government will pay on their behalf or that, at some future date when the hostages have been safely brought back to this country, Her Majesty's Government will make sure that they are reimbursed by the Iraqi Government. As the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, stated, it is absurd that the British taxpayers should have to pay out of their own pockets in order to allow Saddam Hussein to imprison people against their will.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, it is important that those who are in financial difficulties should be given help. We have sought to allow financial and other help to be given where it is urgently needed.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself again into a Committee on the Bill.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.