HL Deb 06 December 1990 vol 524 cc267-9

3.7 p.m.

Baroness Burton of Coventry asked Her Majesty's Government:

What progress has been made towards resolving the problem of slot allocations at busy European airports and whether the initial report from the European Commission, expected at the end of November, has been received.

The Minister of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)

My Lords, I understand that the Commission has now agreed a proposal, and that it intends to send it to the Council very soon.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, that Answer is certainly better than I had expected. I imagine that the Minister is also agreeably surprised. Can he translate "very soon" for the House and can we be told the date of the next Council? Am I correct in thinking that at the beginning of October the Minister asked for a study into the IATA system of slot allocation? If that is correct, and he has received a copy of the study, can he tell the House what has come out of it?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the next meeting of the Council will be on 17th and 18th December. This issue is not on the agenda as yet, and it may be a little soon to discuss it as we have not seen the proposals. The following meetings are scheduled for 27th March and 20th and 21st June next year. As regards the consultants' report that we commissioned, they have completed stage one of the work and we and the Civil Aviation Authority are now studying it. We shall soon be considering whether to proceed to stage two.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is the Minister aware that I am surprised that the noble Baroness was so surprised that the Commission has done its duty? Is it not a fact that the Commission has given emphasis in its proposal to the issue of transparency? Is it not absolutely right that some of the cosy arrangements that have taken place in the past should be exposed and that people should know exactly what is happening about slot allocation? Is not the Minister at least in agreement in principle with the proposition made on behalf of the Commission in its press statement that some rights must be surrendered by the major carriers?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, transparency is one of the issues but by no means the only issue which must be looked at in the proposal. The subject is complicated and we must think not only of the EC but of the rest of the world. We must take that into account in the EC's proposals. We certainly support the EC's objective of making slots available to new entrants. New entrants are not an end in themselves and we are looking for a means of promoting strong and fair competition.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, will my noble friend join me in wishing many happy returns to the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, and wish him many years of happy activity on the Opposition Front Bench? Will my noble friend indicate how Her Majesty's Government view the slot allocation programme in the context of international traffic particularly over the Atlantic?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis. I had not realised that it is his birthday today. I have no hesitation in agreeing with all that my noble friend said. I touched on my noble friend's second point in my earlier reply. At present, approximately 30 per cent. of traffic is non-EC and that must be taken into account when the proposals are considered.

Lord Tordoff

My Lords, is it not the case that there is a difficulty about the definition of new entrants? While many people would support the proposition that the major airlines should be prepared to give up slots to smaller airlines which might be described as new entrants, they would be less sanguine if the slots were to go to major international carriers which might be defined as new entrants because they had only a small number of slots. Can the Minister help with the definition of new entrants?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, we have not seen the proposals, which were agreed only yesterday. Perhaps I may refer back to the earlier proposals that were mentioned during our debate on the subject. As the noble Lord has pointed out, there is a problem because the proposals would have affected medium-size airlines such as British Midland which now provide the most effective competition for dominant carriers. It would not have qualified as a new entrant and might have been dispossessed of some slots. That is a problem and we shall wait to see what is in the new proposals.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I must put this in the form of a question. Is the Minister aware, as I am, that the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, has come from much higher pastures than we have? Is he also aware that if the noble Lord had been in the House during the past few years, he would not be at all astonished that I am surprised that the Commission came up with the answer?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, heard the second part of the noble Baroness's question. This afternoon I do not wish to enter into the argument as to whether being a commissioner can be regarded as coming from higher pastures than your Lordships' House.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, I think the noble Baroness was referring to Hackney rather than the Commission! I thank the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, and the Minister for their very kind birthday greetings. I look forward to receiving their presents in due course!

Will the Minister give consideration to promoting this issue at the next informal meeting of Transport Ministers so that it can be given an early airing? I believe that that would facilitate the possibility of progress being made at the June Council.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, certainly. We wish to give this matter an early airing. I do not have a date for the informal Councils and, as I said, the next full meeting of the Council is too soon and the following meeting is on 27th March. If there is an informal Council meeting, I am sure that we shall study that aspect. We also wish to see the results of our own study into this matter in order to produce the best possible input into those discussions.