§ 2.43 p.m.
§ Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether action is being taken to ensure that the capercaillie does not become extinct in Scotland.
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, the capercaillie is a protected species and is presently listed in Part 1 of Schedule 2 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. As a result, it may only be killed or taken outside the close season; that is, between 1st October and 31st January. My colleague. Lord James Douglas-Hamilton, is presently consulting about the desirability of a statutory ban on their shooting. A copy of the consultation letter, showing those consulted, has been placed in the Library.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his reply. Can he say whether enough is known about the present numbers of this reclusive but remarkable bird or about the factors which are tending to reduce its numbers? Is he aware that the capercaillie became extinct in Scotland and was reintroduced successfully in 1837?
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenYes, my Lords. I was well aware of the fact that the capercaillie became extinct and was brought in from Sweden at the date mentioned by my noble friend. Regarding numbers, it is estimated that in the early 1970s 10,000 capercaillie existed; but there has been a sharp decline. It is quite difficult to give accurate figures, but the best estimate is that there are now only 2,000 birds.
§ Lord Taylor of GryfeMy Lords, is the Minister aware of a survey by the Forestry Commission in the north of Scotland, which is the habitat of this magnificent bird, and that a decline in the numbers of birds there was observed? Is he further aware that the Forestry Commission imposed a ban on any Forestry Commission shooting of those birds? The birds are not shot for eating but simply as trophies for some of our European friends who come over to shoot in Scotland. Would the Minister encourage the Government to follow the lead of the Forestry Commission, which is given little credit for what it does in this field? Would he also encourage the Government to impose a similar ban throughout private woodlands as well as on Forestry Commission properties?
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, this is a very big subject. I have no doubt that the noble Lord will study most carefully the results of the Government's consultation. I can assure him that very strong views have been expressed on both sides of the argument. I am well aware of the Forestry Commission's voluntary ban, which, I may say, has encouraged us to bring forward a consultation paper. Moreover, we should not have considered bringing forward a consultation paper had we not thought that there was a reason for having a good discussion about the matter at this stage.
§ Lord GeddesMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that capercaillie have been, and indeed still are, successfully reared at Fenton Barns in what I still insist on calling East Lothian?
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, I was not aware of that fact. However, at the moment I am much more concerned with the preservation of the wild capercaillie and getting the right answer to the question of how we should go about preserving them for posterity.
§ Lord Carmichael of KelvingroveMy Lords, I always thought that the name was capercailzie, but I may be wrong about today's spelling. I look forward to reading the report that Lord James Douglas-Hamilton in the other place will produce. From what I have discovered in the past few days, it appears that there are four or five possible reasons for the reduction in numbers of this bird. It seems to be overwhelmingly the case that shooting is the biggest single factor. It is one that we can do most about immediately. Will the Minister urge his friends to follow the ban introduced by the Forestry Commission in 1982? If so, does he agree that there may immediately be an improvement in the population figures of the capercailzie?
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, I accept what the noble Lord says to the effect that shooting is one cause of the decline. The evidence of the Game Conservancy Council, when it becomes available, will show that that body comes to a different conclusion. The question of habitat is very important. The Forestry Commission and the Government brought in the same rates of grant for native pinewoods as for broadleaves in 1988 and that has encouraged the maintenance and extension of pinewoods. To date, the number of applications received by the Forestry Commission for planting native pines already exceeds 2,500 hectares.
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, would the Minister consider whether the same measures to prevent extinction might help the Tory Party in Scotland?
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, that is another Question and one to which I shall not rise.
Baroress StrangeMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the 'z' in capercailzie is in fact the Anglo-Saxon yogh as in Colquhalzie, Menzies and Dalziel?
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, I am always grateful to my noble friend for bringing forward remarks of that kind. I had no idea of it. I am very glad that she has enlightened the House on the matter.
§ Baroness NicolMy Lords, is the Minister aware that ornithologists recommend that supplies of vaccinium myrtillus are good food for the chicks of the capercaillie? If the Forestry Commission could be persuaded to increase the planting of that desirable food, it might help the species.
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her remarks. As I said, we are not certain of the reason for the decline in the numbers of capercaillie. One thing, however, is quite clear: when there is a considerable amount of wet weather at the wrong time of the year it is very detrimental to the species.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, has the noble Lord seen the current issue of the Field magazine, which gives statistics for birds shot last year for sport in the United Kingdom? They show that 2.2 million birds were shot in this country for so-called sport. Does he agree that it is rather hypocritical to complain, as some noble Lords did yesterday, about people in continental Europe shooting wild birds? We justify such action in this country by legalising that which shows the gulf between morality and the law.
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, I am not sure that I follow the question that the noble Lord has asked me. I have just returned from Cyprus where very few birds were to be seen, so I think that there is a problem in some other countries as well as our own. Provided that shooting is done legally and in a reasonable way, I consider that it is a 578 perfectly valid sport to be carried out in the United Kingdom.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the keeping of game often leads to the protection of wildlife? Has he noticed that on today's Order Paper all four of the oral Questions concern the preservation of wildlife and the protection of the environment? Does that not reveal commendable concern on the part of your Lordships? Will my noble friend take note that when the environment Bill comes before the House we shall need plenty of time to consider all of its provisions?
§ Lord Sanderson of BowdenMy Lords, I am sure that the usual channels have listened very carefully to what has been said by my noble friend. I accept that wildlife is a very important aspect of our life in the United Kingdom. With regard to the Institute of Terrestrial Ecology research of the capercaillie, three separate projects are taking place. The Forestry Commission has a project on winter habitat use. For the RSPB there is research on chick habitat use in the Abernethy forest. The ITE is monitoring the population in Glentanar. I do not believe that that illustrates that the Government and those working in that area are less than diligent.