§ 3.17 p.m.
§ Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether recent proposals of the EC Commission would ban in 1993 the British sausage, as composed and prepared at the present.
§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Trumpington)My Lords, the Government will oppose any proposals by the Commission which are unnecessary and would serve only to increase costs and reduce consumer choice. The Government will defend the great British sausage, minced meat and burgers to the end.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for her robust reply. Does she agree that the preparation of this traditional British delicacy is different from practices in other countries but is not a danger to health? Is she aware that she will have the wholehearted support of many Members of this House in her bid to save the British banger?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for his remarks. I submit that the UK. without bangers would be like France without champagne.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonChacun à son goût, my Lords. Separate provision could be made for minced meat which is to be consumed raw. Appropriate labelling to indicate whether products are meant for cooking or consumption in the raw state would inform and protect consumers. There are no hygiene risks from the present British sausage, mince or burgers.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the Franco-German axis in the persons of Messrs. Kohl and Mitterrand is in the process of mixing a black pudding for this country and the EC in the form not only of economic and monetary union but now of political union? Will she ask her right honourable friend the Prime Minister when she attends the Dublin conference next weekend to tell her European partners that we shall not allow any interference with British sausages, nor will we compromise the independence of this nation?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, the noble Lord put his question in a rather complicated way. I feel sure that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will read Hansard, as I am told she always does. As I have said, there are no sound hygiene reasons for these restrictions, particularly when products are meant to be cooked. They would raise costs and reduce consumer choice. The single market is not designed for that kind of measure. Such rules on composition have no place in a measure which is concerned with hygiene and raw meat.
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the Government may find an ally at long last in Europe in the Germans, in that they have many more sausages of greater complexity than we have? Perhaps the Germans will co-operate with us in this matter.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonYes and no, my Lords. I believe it is the Irish and the Spanish who have the same kind of composition in some of their sausages as we do.
§ Lord MonsonMy Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the right response to these proposals is the admirable one suggested by her noble friend Lord Maude of Stratford-upon-Avon in the correspondence columns of the Daily Telegraph on Easter Monday, which cannot be repeated here as the language was somewhat unparliamentary?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I did not read it.
§ Lord GallacherMy Lords, I hope that the noble Baroness will take assurance that this side of the House is in total support of the Government's endeavours in this matter. Will she say whether, 108 despite the most valiant endeavours of her colleague the Minister responsible for food in Brussels, if we lose the day to such an extent that we are embarrassed by the Commission's action in this regard, there will be a defence for us in the final analysis in the Cassis de Dijon judgment of the European Court, thus protecting the British sausage?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I am sure that that is more a question for the Foreign Office. However, I realise that I reply for the Government. The Government will oppose any unnecessary restrictions and welcome the support of the industry and the Meat and Livestock Commission. Separate provision could be made for minced meat which is to be consumed raw. Appropriate labelling could indicate whether products are meant to be cooked or are intended for consumption raw and would inform and protect consumers. If all else fails, I hope that labelling would provide a means for us to continue.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, given the extreme variation in what passes for a sausage, from something which is almost entirely filled with bread to something which is almost entirely filled with meat, is there such a thing as the British sausage, and if so what is it?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, of course there is such a thing as the British sausage. Some people like a sausage with herbs, and the sausage one eats depends on the recipe one favours.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, the previous Question revealed that the European Commission has still not replied to a letter sent to it by the Government months ago. Nevertheless, the Commission has the temerity to tell us what to do with our own sausage. Would the Minister like to comment on that?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonNo, my Lords, not much.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the present situation seems to be bringing to life an episode from the television programme "Yes, Minister" in which the British sausage was threatened? Will she comment on rumours of an equally serious threat to the haggis?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I shall do so with pleasure. The haggis is boiled before sale and is not subject therefore to these proposals. We are equally determined to protect the haggis should the need arise.