BSE Cows: Offspring (Hansard, 5 April 1990)

§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Trumpington)
Yes, my Lords.

§ Lord Hunter of Newington
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that brief reply. However, if we accept that the disease is due to feeding from contaminated 1512 bonemeal and that some of this bonemeal has been exported, perhaps I may ask this question. Has this disease occurred in Europe? For example, is the disease that is described in Holland as mineral deficiency the same disease as BSE?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we have kept other countries fully informed about the development of BSE in Britain and of the probable role of meat and bonemeal as the source of infection. In the light of that, it is for importing countries to decide whether to accept this material and, if so, under what conditions. For example, this material may be for use in pig and poultry rations which is permitted in this country. BSE has not been reported in the Netherlands. Research studies in this country show that the most likely cause of BSE is the feeding of ruminant-based rations containing protein material derived from sheep, some of which were infected with scrapie; but we have no further information.

§ The Earl of Radnor
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that although we might not wish the offspring of spongiform animals— to give them a name— to enter milking herds, they might be almost impossible to trace?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we are permitting breeding from some offspring. There is no evidence which points to a need for breeding to be prohibited; but farmers, as a matter of prudence, may wish to consider taking their own action.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether the department still maintains close liaison with the British Veterinary Association on this and similar problems?

§ Baroness Trumpington
Yes, my Lords.

§ Lord Gallacher
My Lords, can the Minister say whether her department still permits the delivery of calves by Caesarian section from cows suffering from BSE? If so, what is the justification for that policy in the light of present circumstances?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, it is permitted, and it is up to farmers to make their own decision.

§ Lord Hunter of Newington
My Lords, given the fact that it takes four or five years for this disease to develop in affected cows, what happens to the animals in the interval? Are they used for ordinary beef purposes?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, we are carrying out an enormous amount of research into this disease, which the noble Lord will appreciate is a very new disease. We have a project under way, which is costing £ 5 million, to ascertain whether the disease is transmissible from dam to calf. Over 300 offspring of affected cattle have been purchased, together with a similar number of control animals. All are being kept at Ministry experimental husbandry farms. The offspring of infected animals in this country are not being allowed to breed.
1513 However, we have imported 160 cows from New Zealand which have never been fed on the food that we think causes this disease. They will be implanted with embryos from BSE-infected cows. The reason for the importation is to see whether there is maternal or paternal transmission via the embryo. This is extremely important to our farmers who wish to export embryos.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, could there be any risk to bovine-type zoo animals and deer from BSE?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, five antelopes have died of a transmissible encephalopathy, probably as a result of consuming ruminant-based feed. The ruminant feed ban imposed in July 1988 applies to zoo animals as well as to livestock. Advice about BSE has been given to all zoos.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, the Minister will remember that when the scheme for compensation was first introduced, the Government were pressed extremely hard to pay compensation at 100 per cent. of the market value. Can she say what was the saving to public funds regarding paying compensation at the rate of 50 per cent.? Further, can she say what the increase has been in the number of reported cases since the compensation rate has been increased to 100 per cent.?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I am unable to give the noble Lord the figure that he desires. However, I shall write to him on the matter. Up to 30th March, 11, 815 cases have been confirmed in Great Britain. There is no evidence to show that the availability of full compensation has made any difference to the numbers because we have been expecting them to increase in any event.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, further to the question put by the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, to which an answer was given relating to zoo animals, has the Ministry taken any steps to ensure that there is no danger of transmission into herds of deer for producing venison?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, to my knowledge— and if I am wrong I shall most certainly write to the noble Lord— there have been no such cases among deer.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, if the disease has affected antelopes, what is to stop it affecting deer?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, as I said, we are carrying out an enormous amount of research into the whole matter. Farmers with herds of deer will have been aware, as are farmers of cattle, of the dangers we believe to be inherent in the type of food which is now banned for cattle.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, does the Minister know whether any cases have been reported from an organic farm?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I do not know.

§ Lord Walston
My Lords, is there any likelihood that a test will be developed which will show whether cows are affected by BSE before they are showing signs of clinical disease? Given the long period of incubation, would it not be enormously important to be able to test animals before they have produced offspring, and before their milk has been consumed by human beings? That can only be done by tests in the pre-clinical stage.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, the assumptions made by the noble Lord are correct. That is why we have a wide-ranging research programme which has been underway since the disease was first identified. More than £ 12 million has been allocated over the next three years to the programme.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, can the Minister say what steps the Government are taking to build up and isolate stocks of cattle which are known to be free of BSE?

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, it is hard to tell which herds are free from BSE because the disease does not show itself immediately. It can occur in a cow in any period between about three years old up to a really old cow— that is, however old an old cow may be.