Marine Nature Reserve: Designation Date (Hansard, 15 November 1989)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Hesketh)
My Lords, I cannot give a date for the announcement of the second marine nature reserve. As the noble Baroness knows, of the sites under consideration, the proposals for a marine nature reserve around Skomer are the most advanced, and progress is being made in this respect.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. However, is he not aware that the proposals have been agreed by all parties and have gone to the Secretary of State for Wales? Will he therefore give us some idea of how long he expects it to take for the Secretary of State for Wales to make up his mind, bearing in mind that this site was first identified in 1981 in the Wildlife and Countryside Act? Is this not far too long a time for such a valuable reserve to remain unprotected?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, it is true to say that Rome was not built in a day. As the noble Baroness will be aware, there are particular problems with 1314 marine nature reserves which are different from any other. Because of that it is important that we achieve consensus in arriving at a satisfactory outcome. I said earlier that we were unable to forecast a date for the publication of the draft order by the Secretary of State for Wales. But I understand that he expects it to be early in the New Year.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, as Rome was not built in a day, does the noble Lord not agree that a marine nature reserve could be designated in nine years? Is he aware that the active negotiations on Skomer have taken more than five years? Will there be a need to review the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 to deal with the question of designation? What effect will the Government's plans for devolution have on the process of designation? Could this mean further delays, or will it accelerate designation? Lastly, is he aware that there is great concern in Wales about this delay, and that people there are looking to the noble Lord to do something about it?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, naturally we wish to avoid delays, and we shall, in consultation with the Nature Conservancy Council, be reviewing the consultation procedures. It will be important to ensure that the interested parties continue to have an adequate opportunity to put forward their point of view. The noble Lord was perhaps referring specifically to the Menai Straits. Great concern has been expressed by the yachting interests. The Nature Conservancy Council is this winter holding a series of meetings with them in order to allay their fears.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord. Will he ensure that the Druids in Anglesey are also consulted?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Answer he gave just now to my noble friend Lady Nicol was in essence the same as the Answer given by the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, in April of this year and those given by other Ministers on no fewer than six occasions over the past four years—answers to the effect that no progress has been made? If he can confirm that, why is the wording in his Answer slightly different? Will he not remind his officials of the strictures of Sir Ernest Gowers against elegant variation?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, if the noble Lord had listened a little more closely to what I said, there was a mention of the New Year which I do not believe appeared in any previous Answers given from this Dispatch Box.

§ Lord Ross of Newport
My Lords, I accept that the establishment of marine nature reserves is a tricky business, as I found out when I tried to support one on the Isle of Wight. But is it not also a fact, as indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, that the break-up of the NCC is bound to make matters that much more difficult? Will the noble Lord take that into account before a Bill is put before the House on green issues?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the noble Lord asked about future plans for the Nature Conservancy Council. That goes slightly wide of the Question on the Order Paper. However, I shall draw the noble Lord's remarks to the attention of my right honourable friend with regard to the possibility of legislation that might be coming forward.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, how can the noble Lord maintain that the Government are serious in their commitment to conservation when in eight years they have been able to designate only one marine nature reserve? Are there not to be 10? How long will it take the Government to designate the extra marine nature reserves that are required and which it is agreed are required? If the Government are serious about conservation, how long will it take before they put their words into practice?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, to make these reserves a success and something of which this country can be proud, they must be considered properly and must be achieved through concensus. The noble Lord asked about the Government's commitment. The fact that since 1979 we have increased funding by 150 per cent. in real terms is essence enough of the proof that the noble Lord requires.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords, will the Minister note that the so-called break-up of the Nature Conservancy Council may lead to more rapid decision making in these matters? Decisions relating to Scotland will be made in Scotland and will involve a greater degree of local knowledge on these matters. Will he therefore support the idea of the break-up of the Nature Conservancy Council?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I never knew that I had even questioned the idea of the break-up of the Nature Conservancy Council. I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord for making a point which is entirely valid for the future.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, moving from Wales to Scotland, may I ask about another suggested marine nature reserve off the Isles of Scilly? It was waiting for an environmental trust to be established. Has that happened, and will designation therefore come rather more quickly?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, the organisation to which the noble Baroness refers has now been established and is considering a voluntary marine park which would include the area proposed for the statutory marine nature reserve. The Nature Conservancy Council is providing advice and support.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, will the noble Lord answer my question? If it has taken the Government eight years to establish one marine nature reserve, how long will it take them to establish the 10?

§ Lord Hesketh
My Lords, I believe that I answered the noble Lord's question the first time. There is not a mathematical progression when establishing marine nature reserves.