Energy Efficiency: Resources (Hansard, 9 November 1989)

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the energy efficiency obligations that the Electricity Act imposes on the privatised supply companies and the Office of Electricity Regulation will bring more resources to bear on the promotion of energy efficiency. Resources for the Government's Energy Efficiency Office are reviewed each year in the public expenditure survey. A statement on the outcome of this year's survey will be made shortly.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that Answer. Does he agree that energy efficiency has now come to the centre of energy policy? It has been a matter of grave concern that in recent years the Government have reduced the contribution to the Energy Efficiency Office. Can he give an assurance that in the forthcoming statement to which he referred that factor will be taken properly into account and that proper signals will be given to the country at large that energy efficiency is now crucial both from the point of view of savings and of the environment?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the figures for the next three years will be announced shortly. However, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister reaffirmed the Government's commitment to energy efficiency at the United Nations yesterday. At the Department of Energy we have refocused our information programme in order to provide specific information and advice on energy management in key industrial sectors and among major users in industrial areas. The key is our new best practice programme and the work of our regional energy efficiency officers.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is it not clear that the Prime Minister gave the wrong signal yesterday at the United Nations by saying that nuclear energy was the way to solve the energy crisis and global warming? Is it not now clear that central to a policy on global warming and on energy efficiency is the conservation of energy and the finding of, commitment to, and exploitation of, alternative methods of generating electricity?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the Government accepted that nuclear power alone was not going to solve the threat of global warming but recognised that nuclear power had a positive role to play in helping to curtail future carbon dioxide emissions. However, we believe that energy efficiency, nuclear power and other non-fossil sources are complementary rather than competitive means to an end.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords,what is the good of the Prime Minister reaffirming the Government's commitment to energy efficiency when her Government have been cutting the resources of the Energy Efficiency Office? Do the Government now understand that energy efficiency is more cost effective and more environmentally effective than nuclear energy? Do they realise that it is no good palming us off time after time by saying that they are complementary? They are not complementary; they are competitive. Will the Government—

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, do the Government now recognise that energy efficiency is essential and should be given the same resources as nuclear energy has been given in the past?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I cannot agree with the last comments of the noble Lord. However, the Government accept that all forms of energy production and use have some environmental consequences. Energy efficiency helps to keep these to a minimum. That is one good reason among many for the Government's continuing programme of work for the Energy Efficiency Office.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, is it not obvious that if the world becomes more prosperous —as it will need to be in order to feed its population —the demand for energy is bound to expand? Does it not follow that my noble friend is right in saying that both energy conservation and the use of every means of generating energy will become necessary?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I agree with my noble and learned friend. One of the consequences of affluence is the need for more energy. However, we can mitigate the increase of generating more power by energy conservation.

§ Lord Whaddon
My Lords, bearing in mind the previous enthusiasm shown by the Government for nuclear energy and the tremendous problems that they have encountered over the past few days as regards the privatisation of nuclear, have they considered having urgent discussions with the French nuclear industry, which appears able to find ways of generating electricity efficiently using nuclear power but which we appear to be unable to do?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords,I belive that French nuclear energy is outside the scope of the Question

§ Baroness Platt of Writtle
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House what is being done to educate young people in the importance of energy conservation and efficiency?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, that is an extremely interesting question and I shall bring my noble friend's remarks to the attention of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I believe the Minister said that the Government believe that the promotion of energy efficiency is in the public interest. Is it the case that re-affirmation and exhortation are good enough? Does he not agree that if we wish to promote energy efficiency we must make those who use energy inefficiently pay a high price for it —in other words, they should be taxed for using energy inefficiently —and those who use it efficiently should gain certain benefits? Is it not time that the Government intervened more actively to promote energy efficiency instead of merely talking about it?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, eventually the consumer will dictate his requirements in the energy which he uses. We are encouraging the manufacturers of white goods to display how much energy is consumed by each of their products.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, perhaps I may press the matter a little further so that the Minister understands my question. We cannot leave the consumer to take the decision because he will take an inefficient decision. The Government must make it expensive for the consumer so that he takes an efficient decision. Does the Minister agree with that statement?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, no. We believe that the Government should provide the right information. The consumer should use energy as he thinks best.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that there are sociological difficulties about taxing the energy wasters because many of them are poor, and to tax them could make their lives more difficult?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House how the consumer will be able to decide whether he wishes to pay 6.2 pence per unit for nuclear energy or 2.6 pence per unit for coal energy?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I am not sure that those figures are correct. However, the consumer is not given the choice when he uses energy. It is in his interests to use less energy if he can.

Noble Lords
Next Question!

§ Lord Borthwick
My Lords, if we wish to have a clean atmosphere why do we not use more natural 940 forces? We have water, tides and wind, none of which causes damage to our climate. Why cannot we concentrate on more simple methods?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, my noble friend has raised an interesting point. Renewables will form part of future electricity generation but they can provide only a small proportion of the energy required.

Noble Lords
Next Question!

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, how can the Minister claim that the Government believe in energy efficiency when they have cut the resources for the Energy Efficiency Office?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, it is true to say that the reduction largely reflects the success to date of the Energy Efficiency Office programmes in raising consumer awareness.