§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will now withdraw the order which compels civil aircraft operating a service between Glasgow Airport and airports in North America to land and take off also from Prestwick Airport on both outward and inward flights.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, on 8th May my right honourable friend announced that the existing policy for the Scottish lowland airports is to continue and he subsequently has made new traffic distribution rules to give effect to that policy. Prestwick therefore remains the gateway airport for intercontinental services to and from Scotland.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, when my noble friend next has the onerous duty of replying on behalf of the Department of Transport will he insist on getting from it a better answer than that? Is he aware that the Scottish courts, through Lord Dervaird, have ruled that that order is outwith the powers of the Secretary of State, and that the Secretary of State at the Perth party conference asked why an airline should not fly between any two destinations that it chooses? Why should it not?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am not surprised at my noble friend's lack of enthusiasm for the reply that I gave. I am afraid that it was the best that I could manage today. I shall try to do better in the future. The recent ruling of the Scottish Court of Session dealt with the traffic distribution rules through which effect is given to the lowland airport policy and not with the merits of the policy itself, which must of course be a matter for the Government.
§ Lord GrimondMy Lords, is the Minister aware that even those of us who are enthusiastic about encouraging Prestwick think that that is an absolutely dotty way of doing it? If the Government's reasoning is that they will improve communications to Prestwick, which are far from good, can he say whether they have started the programme, what improvements they will make and when they may be completed?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, Prestwick is a fine airport. I hope to see it well used in its own right. On access, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has announced the intention of improving Prestwick's surface access. The Scottish Office will discuss with BR and Strathclyde PTE the best way to improve rail access, including the 1282 possibility of a station at the airport. There are also plans to improve the airport's road links. I am sure that your Lordships will join me in welcoming that initiative.
§ Baroness Platt of WrittleMy Lords, what will be the increased cost per passenger mile to aircraft flying to the eastern seaboard of the United States as a result of making that unnecessary landing; and how might that be reflected in ticket prices?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am afraid that I do not have those figures with me. Some figures appeared in a national newspaper on Friday, but I have not been able to confirm whether they were accurate.
§ Baroness Platt of WrittleMy Lords, may I have a written answer?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I shall write to my noble friend.
§ Lord Bruce-GardyneMy Lords, how does that policy square with the comment of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment at the recent Scottish Tory Party conference that it was a matter of the greatest importance to the whole of Scottish industry and commerce that artificial and unnecessary barriers to imports to and exports from Scotland, such as the national dock labour scheme, should be got rid of? How do we square that statement with the artificial preservation of the barriers against airports other than Prestwick?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, that is a slightly different question. The Question on the Order Paper refers to a charter airline which has to land at Prestwick on its way from Glasgow to Florida.
§ Lord Carmichael of KelvingroveMy Lords, is the Minister aware that there is a growing feeling in Scotland that the present situation of nominating Prestwick as the sole gateway airport for North American traffic is making everyone look ridiculous and that the Scottish press and everyone else is convinced that it is silly? Will the Minister convey to his right honourable friends the Secretaries of State for Scotland and for Transport that if they intend to continue with that policy they should start to give the Scottish people some convincing reasons for it? Until now we have had no reasons. We have been given a bonus in terms of the fact that there may be a rail link and that in 10 years' time there may be a new motorway, but that does not remove the feeling that the whole thing is preposterous.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I shall of course convey the views that have been expressed today to my right honourable friends. There has been much debate about this matter and the need for a review, with arguments put on both sides. The arguments on the other side have been just as strong.
§ Lord Taylor of GryfeMy Lords, is the Minister aware that, despite the comment of the noble Lord, 1283 Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove, the Government's decision is much welcomed by thousands of residents in the West of Scotland? It would be wrong for environmental reasons to have a city centre airport, such as Renfrew, carrying additional transatlantic traffic when there is an excellent transatlantic airport within 25 miles.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am of course most grateful to the noble Lord. He confirms the fact that there are arguments on both sides.
§ Lord TordoffMy Lords, is there not in fact transatlantic traffic going into Glasgow? The only problem is that it has to go via this other place.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, which other place? Long-haul services do not have to start in Glasgow. There are other ways of organising flight patterns so that transatlantic flights can start from Prestwick.
§ The Earl of PerthMy Lords, how many times in a year may Glasgow airport be shut? Prestwick, because it is almost totally clear of any kind of fog, enjoys a great advantage.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I do not have the figures, but I agree with the noble Earl that Prestwick has an extremely good climate for flying into and out of.
§ Lord WhaddonMy Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that the most hazardous part of any aircraft flight is during take-off or landing? Most accidents occur at those times. Will he further bear in mind that any unnecessary take-offs or landings double the risks?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, that is one of the environmental considerations that is taken into account when we look at the future of Glasgow airport.
§ Lord KirkhillMy Lords, can the Minister confirm, or otherwise, that the Secretary of State for Defence's majority of 187 might be a factor in the Government's calculations?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I believe that that is highly unlikely.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that those of us who criticise this odd, if not crazy, decision have no hostility towards Prestwick airport? I have the greatest admiration for it. But is he aware that, by making it a compulsory handicap for civil airlines which do not wish to use Prestwick, it is damaging the airline industry's general feeling of respect for it?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, all I can say is that I shall ensure that my right honourable friend reads and listens to what has been said in the debate.