HL Deb 08 May 1989 vol 507 cc395-7

2.54 p.m.

Lord Kilbracken asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in view of the banning for many years of the public use of the Kurdish language in Turkey despite Article 39 of the Treaty of Lausanne, they will bring pressure to bear on the Turkish Government to conform with that article and, in particular, whether they will oppose Turkey's application to join the European Community until they have done so.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Glenarthur)

My Lords, in discussing human rights with the Turkish Government, we have frequently made clear that we expect them to respect and abide by the terms and conditions of the international treaties and conventions to which they are a party. Turkey's application to join the EC is currently being considered by the Commission. Once its opinion is available, the application will then be considered further by the Council of Ministers, which will take into account all relevant factors.

Lord Kilbracken

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. Will he agree that under the treaty, to which the British Empire as it then existed, France and Italy were principal signatories, Turkey agreed that: No restrictions shall be imposed on the free use by any Turkish national of any language in private intercourse, in commerce, religion, in the press, or in publications of any kind or at public meetings … or … before the Courts"? Is it not a fact that the 8 million to 10 million Kurds in Turkey, whose principal language is Kurdish, are permitted no Kurdish language books, newspapers, radio or TV programmes and no Kurdish-speaking schools, and that the use of the Kurdish language in the law courts is prohibited? Is that not in direct contravention of the agreement made by Turkey in 1923 at Lausanne, and should they not now be compelled to conform with their undertaking?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, the noble Lord accurately quotes from Article 39 of the Treaty of Lausanne. The difficulty is that there is an earlier sentence in that article which may to some extent conflict with that which he has quoted. Nevertheless, we expect the Turkish Government to treat all their citizens with due regard to the terms of the relevant international conventions to which Turkey is a party, and this is such a convention.

Lord McNair

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Kurds make up approximately one-quarter of the population of Turkey? Might it be helpful to inform the Turks of the much more generous way that we treat, for example, the Welsh-speaking element in this country, a smaller minority, which has Welsh-speaking schools, a television channel and so forth?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am sure that the Turkish Government appreciate the importance of Welsh speaking in this country, particularly in Wales. Nevertheless, I do not believe that we can go down that particular road, although I confirm that the figures given by the noble Lord are broadly correct.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I do not propose to deal with the noble Lord's intervention at this stage. Will the Minister confirm that his initial Answer means that Her Majesty's Government will make Turkey's approach to human rights a major consideration when the Turkish application for membership of the EC is decided?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am not in a position to say anything more about the EC application other than that it is now being considered by the Commission. I cannot predict what will happen or how long it will take. However, there are many other suitable avenues for ventilating the concerns which exist about human rights anywhere, and they include the European Convention on Human Rights, to which Turkey is a party.

Viscount Buckmaster

My Lords, does the Minister agree that Iraq's attacks on the Kurds over the past two years represent violations of human rights as terrible as any perpetrated worldwide since the end of World War II?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am well aware of many of the concerns which have been raised about the abuses of human rights to which the noble Viscount has referred. However, his question goes a little further than the Treaty of Lausanne.

Lord Kilbracken

My Lords, I do not know what the earlier sentence is to which the Minister referred in the Treaty of Lausanne, but could I direct his attention to another earlier sentence in Article 37? It states that Turkey undertakes that the stipulations contained in the article that I quoted shall be recognised as fundamental laws, and that no law, regulation or official action shall conflict or interfere with those stipulations.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I also have that article in front of me, but I cannot interpret the Treaty of Lausanne from the Dispatch Box in quite the way that the noble Lord suggests. I suspect that it is a matter for international lawyers.

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