HL Deb 08 May 1989 vol 507 cc390-2

2.40 p.m.

Baroness Strange asked Her Majesty's Government:

What recent progress has been made by the Ministry of Defence in moving jobs from the South of England to other parts of Britain.

The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, the Ministry of Defence has recently completed the transfer of 1,400 jobs to Glasgow as part of the Government's existing dispersal programme. On 9th March this year we announced a move of the Ministry's Quality Assurance Directorate—some 1,500 jobs—to Teesside. A number of smaller moves are proposed which would involve a further 1,200 jobs being relocated from London and the South-East over the next two years.

Baroness Strange

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that extremely encouraging reply. Can he say what other plans there are for relocating other defence works farther north, or at least outwith London?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, we are currently considering the possibility of relocating the land and air systems controllerates involving some 3,400 posts from London to somewhere outside. We expect to reach a decision on that very shortly. A range of further relocation possibilities is also under review with a view to finding appropriate sites for as many jobs as we can.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, with these jobs that are being created, will full attention be given to the high techniques that are required today to ensure that the arms that are put into soldiers' hands are the best that can be provided by anyone?

Lord Trefgarne

Yes, of course, my Lords. It is essential in any of these relocation considerations to ensure that they remain as effective as ever.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, when workers are moved as part of these relocation schemes, are allowances paid to make up for the additional expense of moving and finding new accommodation?

Lord Trefgarne

Yes, indeed, my Lords. Allowances are presently paid. We are concerned to ensure that these meet the necessary expenses which people incur. We are therefore reviewing the present package of allowances to see whether it needs to be improved.

Lord Irving of Dartford

My Lords, in the first part of his answer the noble Lord gave the number of movements. Can he say what proportion of staff who are offered relocation take it? Secondly, what consultations take place in developing these programmes and what regard is paid to regional economic plans?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, we take great care to discuss these plans at as early a stage as possible with all those directly concerned, not least the representatives of the personnel themselves. I believe that is the main point which the noble Lord was concerned about.

Lord Rochester

My Lords, can the noble Lord assure us that it is only considerations of national security that prevent the Government from locating more defence establishments, and thus establishing more jobs, in parts of Britain other than the south of England?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, for very good traditional historical reasons, now very much lost in the mists of history, a great proportion of Ministry of Defence establishments are located in the South-East of England. The reason, I am told, was to counter the threat from Napoleon many years ago. Clearly, different considerations now apply; we are therefore working hard to correct the imbalance that undoubtedly exists. The problem is that the cost of moving many of these establishments, leaving aside the disruption to the personnel, is often considerable.

Lord Dormand of Easington

My Lords, as deputy chairman of the Teesside Development Corporation, may I unusually congratulate the Government on their wisdom in bringing the 1,500 jobs which the Minister has just mentioned to Teesside? Those jobs are very much needed in that part of the country. How much time is likely to elapse between the announcement that was made, as he said, on 9th March, and jobs actually being created in the area?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware the necessary facilities must be set up for the quality assurance directorate. Quite a range of technical equipment is required to carry out the work, some of which will be removed from its present site, mostly at Woolwich. Other equipment will be acquired locally. All that will, I fear, take some time; so it will be two or three years before the benefits of this change are seen in jobs in the district.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, the noble Lord has referred to the moves which are to be made to Glasgow and the North-East. Will he consider the claims and the needs of Wales when further transfers are under consideration? Will he indicate what is the ratio of jobs created in any of these areas in relation to the numbers transferred from the South-East to Glasgow, the North-East and elsewhere? As far as Wales is concerned, will he be good enough to consult carefully with Mr. Peter Walker, who, as he knows, is very keen on these things?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I should have to take some advice concerning the ratio of the remaining jobs. Some 60,000 civilian jobs presently exist in the South-East area represented by the Ministry of Defence. As for the claims of Wales for any future relocations, Cardiff is among the places being considered for the land and air systems controllerate move to which I referred a moment ago.