Brigade of Gurkhas: Future (Hansard, 4 May 1989)

§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, we have repeatedly made it clear that we intend that there shall be a future for the Gurkhas after 1997, and hope shortly to be in a position to say something more about this.

§ Lord Bramall
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his quietly encouraging, although surprisingly somewhat cautious, reply. Does he agree that, whatever the longer-term plans for the shape of the brigade—and I agree that there are a number of factors to take into account—in the shorter term, while we still have responsibility for the stability and security of Hong Kong, while there are very real problems of recruiting and retention in the British Army, there can be no justification whatsoever for restricting the number and strengths of Gurkha units for which no recruiting problems exist?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the noble and gallant Lord will not expect me to anticipate the Statement that is to be made in the not too distant future. However, I can assure him that all the points he has made are being very carefully taken into account.

§ Lord Irving of Dartford
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that this matter has been under consideration for at least five years, and that many people appear to believe that the delay arises from a lack of commitment, despite what the noble Lord has said? This would be a very poor recompense for the excellent and courageous service that the Gurkhas have given to this country over a long period of time.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. The contribution that the Gurkhas have made 260 in past times to the effectiveness of the British Army is absolutely magnificent. The urgency is not so great as the noble Lord suggests because we shall be withdrawing finally from Hong Kong in 1997. It is in Hong Kong that Gurkhas are principally employed at the present time.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, I welcome cautiously the Answer given by the noble Lord. Why is there no reference to the Brigade of Gurkhas and recruiting difficulties in this year's White Paper? Is he aware that the Defence White Paper this year is quite exceptionally skimpy and uninformative?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the content of the White Paper does not exactly arise from the Question on the Order Paper. However, if the noble Lord is asking why there was no extensive reference to Gurkhas in the White Paper, perhaps I may revert to the reply that I have just given to the noble Lord opposite. The White Paper that has recently been published is the 1989 White Paper, and not that for 1997.

§ Viscount Slim
My Lords, in view of the demographic problems of recruiting that will affect the armed forces in the future, and the fact that the army already looks like being under strength, should not the noble Lord be advising his right honourable friend the Secretary of State to retain every Gurkha and not to consider slicing the numbers?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as is known, the British Army has some modest recruiting problems at the present time. They are indeed no more than modest. I do not think that the size of the Brigade of Gurkhas is a relevant consideration. However, as I have already said, we certainly recognise the importance of the brigade.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, will the Minister agree that it can sometimes be more economical to employ Gurkhas?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, that is a rather more complicated question than perhaps my noble friend realises. The cost of employing Gurkhas very much depends upon where they are deployed.

§ Lord Eden of Winton
My Lords, the Minister has informed the House that we my expect a fuller Statement shortly. Can he give the assurance to the House that it will be before the Summer Recess?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I cannot give a categoric assurance in the way that my noble friend requests. However, I can say that I shall be very surprised if that is not the case.

§ Lord Bramall
My Lords, is it not rather surprising that the Government have taken so long over this matter? As has already been stated, it is over three years since the initial announcement was made envisaging a continual role for the Gurkhas after 1997. The admirable parliamentary Select Committee report has been published for quite a long time. Can the Minister say why there has been this delay?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, there is no particular deliberate delay. As I said earlier, there is no particular urgency either, because there are no immediate plans for any change in the size of the Gurkha Brigade. What we are considering is the size of the Gurkha Brigade post-1997.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, while we are all very glad to know that there will be a future for the Gurkhas after 1997, can the Minister tell us whether that future will be with the British Crown?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, yes. In the future there will be a Brigade of Gurkhas within the British Army for as far ahead as we can foresee.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, will the Minister assure us that if, after 1997, one problem is that of accommodation for the Gurkhas when they leave Hong Kong, he will investigate fully the possibility of stationing another battalion in Brunei, where the training facilities are excellent?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, all those possibilities will be considered. However, we have not reached a final conclusion. We shall announce it as soon as we have done so.