Human Rights in Turkey and Kenya (Hansard, 13 March 1989)

§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, we urge the Turkish Government to maintain the improvements in human rights made since the return to civilian rule in 1983 and to respect and abide by the terms of the international human rights conventions to which Turkey is a party. We take suitable opportunities to discuss the maintenance of high standards of human rights with the Kenyan Government.

Viscount Buckmaster
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that Amnesty International, whose views on these matters are generally accepted as excellent, is gravely concerned about conditions in the two countries? Is he aware that in regard to Kenya it is concerned in particular about starvation in prison, and in relation to Turkey—which was mentioned in a Guardian article on 8th March—there is grave concern about beatings and torture in prison?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, we certainly regard Amnesty International's accusations about Turkey as serious and disturbing. However we are encouraged by the Turkish Government who say that they are investigating Amnesty's recent list of those alleged to have died in police custody and have taken action against certain of the police personnel responsible. We were further encouraged by a Turkish Embassy press statement in November last year, to the effect that the Turkish Government are making a sincere effort to eradicate torture and to adhere to the European Convention on Human Rights. Kenya's record generally is very good and stands comparison with any worldwide. President Moi gave a public commitment to protection of human rights during the Prime Minister's visit to Nairobi in January last year.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, while we welcome the noble Lord's encouraging remarks about the negotiations which have taken place between Her Majesty's Government and the Turkish Government, is it nevertheless not the case that there are about 18,000 political prisoners in Turkish gaols and that many of those prisoners are subjected to widespread and systematic torture? Would he agree that the point is not one of eradicating that slowly, but of the Turkish Government taking the matter in hand and stopping it because they have the power and authority to do so? Against that background, what is the attitude of Her Majesty's Government 4 towards the application of Turkey for membership of the European Community? Ought it not to be the case that not a single political prisoner should be tortured in Turkish gaols before there is any question of Turkey joining the European Community?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am bound to agree that the situation in Turkey is far from perfect. We think that the best way to seek to secure a correction of that situation is by continued representation at appropriate levels—frankly, from the Prime Minister downwards. That is what has happened in recent months. As recently as January this year, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister raised the matter with the Turkish Defence Minister who was then on a visit to London. My right honourable and learned friend the Foreign Secretary has also raised the matter on appropriate occasions, as has my right honourable friend the Minister of State at the Foreign Office. So there is no shortage of opportunities to raise the matter with our Turkish friends, and we hope and believe that they will take account of what we say to them and bring matters to an early, much improved situation.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord. Does he agree, however, that it is dificult to contemplate Turkey's membership of the Community in the present circumstances?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, if the noble Lord will permit me to say so, I think that that is a separate matter. Nonetheless, I agree with him that, if Turkey is to join the European Community, it must adhere to European standards in this regard.

§ Lord Hooson
My Lords, will the Minister tell the House how many British nationals are long-term prisoners in Turkey; how long has the longest been there; and are they ever visited?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I do not have the figures before me, but naturally I shall find them and write to the noble Lord.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, has the United Nations sub-commission on human rights been notified about those allegations? What has flowed from its intervention if any?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, Amnesty International is not an organ of the United Nations so I cannot say whether it has taken the steps to which the noble and learned Lord refers, but we should certainly have no objection if it wanted to do so.

Viscount Buckmaster
My Lords, will the Minister assure us that our representatives in those countries make frequent and powerful protests to the governments concerned when violations of human rights come to their notice? Does he agree that in cases such as that of Ethiopia, which was raised in a recent Question, the most effective way of protesting is for our representatives abroad to join with their European colleagues and making joint protests to the government concerned?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I certainly agree that that is sometimes the best way to proceed in this matter, but I believe that we must deal with such situations on a case by case basis and treat them in the way that we believe will best bring about an improvement. So on some occasions it is perhaps better to go down a different route from that suggested by the noble Viscount.