Pit Closures: Creation of New Jobs (Hansard, 20 June 1989)

§ The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Lord Young of Graffham)
My Lords, it is for the private sector to create employment in areas affected by pit closures, as elsewhere. However, the Government have a wide range of instruments and measures which assist in this process including, for example, regional selective assistance, training measures, and help for new and small businesses. British Coal Enterprise has played a particularly valuable role in helping to create alternative job opportunities in traditional mining areas.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, in view of what the Secretary of State has just said about British Coal Enterprise, will he ask that organisation to do two things? First, will he make a detailed examination of how British Coal Enterprise arrives at its statistics? Secondly, will he ask British Coal Enterprise to break down its statistics into travel-to-work areas? Is the Secretary of State aware that what is being said by British Coal Enterprise about the number of jobs being created bears no resemblance whatever to what is happening in areas where there have been pit closures?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, the figures I have to date show that some £53.7 million of British Coal Enterprise money has been committed out of total funding of some £408 million. The additional money has been attracted from other sources like banks and local authorities. Some, indeed, has come from government grants; for example, regional development grants. That funding has helped to create 33,420 jobs to date. However, I hear what the noble Lord has to say. I shall make inquiries, although the matter is not my specific responsibility. I shall then write to the noble Lord and place a copy of the correspondence in the Library.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, is not the Secretary of State aware that when European regional grants are afforded to offset unemployment created by pit closures, the Government reduce the British allocation to such regions accordingly? Is he not aware that we believe that the Brussels money should be in addition to our UK regional allocation; otherwise there is no net benefit? The Secretary of State is fully aware of the "additionality" arguments. But the Government are defeating the Common Market policy of lessening the disparity between the regions in the Common Market.
122 Further, when regional development grants were withdrawn and selective assistance introduced, we not only received less cash; it also became more difficult to attract companies to our area. Therefore, we were worse off in both respects. In South Yorkshire and Barnsley there is 12 per cent. unemployment. So there is need for a change in regional policy along the lines I have indicated.

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, it is strange that the noble Lord should say that regional policy needs changing at a time when we have seen unemployment coming down fastest in the regions. The noble Lord is also under a misapprehension. When we abolished regional development grants we did not at that time introduce selective assistance. That was introduced, to my knowledge, in the early 1970s. We have ensured that the money that is given for development in the regions is only given where it makes a difference. That seems a sensible step that any prudent government would take.

The Earl of Selkirk
My Lords, will my noble friend say who initiates trading estates today? Is it the Government? Or are local authorities responsible for getting people started?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I hope very much that it is the private sector. Individuals and organisations within the private sector have to get planning permission. There, the local authority has a role to play. If we were to depend only upon English Estates in creating factories in the North-East or the North-West, quite frankly it would not be able to cope. We wish to see a vigorous private sector building the factories and warehouses that are needed.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, will the noble Lord be more specific as regards what special provisions are being made to adapt the Government's training arrangements to the needs of redundant miners in these areas?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, the Government have been working through British Coal Enterprise. I pay considerable tribute to the work of that organisation. It provides assistance by five main routes. If offers advice and guidance to facilitate business start-ups and expansions in coalfield areas; it offers loans to new businesses or firms wishing to relocate to those areas; and it offers support for any new or existing enterprise agencies. It also provides land and premises and identifies special training needs. However, one cannot provide training needs in the abstract. Training can only be provided when one knows the specific end purpose for which it is required.

Baroness Sharpies
My Lords, will my noble friend say how many small businesses have been set up?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
No, my Lords. However, I can certainly make inquiries and find out. I am not sure whether statistics for coalfield areas as such exist, but I know that British Coal Enterprise has stated that it has helped to create some 33,420 jobs.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, does not the Secretary of State agree that it is very important in areas where there have been closures of mines to ensure that alternative employment is provided of a kind that the manual workers who have been made redundant can perform? In South Wales when there were pit closures, the alternative work provided was often in light industry. The miners who had been made redundant were not able to take advantage of the light industrial work available because no training was made available and no other work was available for them in heavy industry.

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, if a mine is to close, the Government could not provide alternative work for miners in the same business as they were in before. We have seen in South Wales in particular an enormous regeneration of the economy. We have seen all kinds of new businesses go there. It is important to accept that the future is different from the past and that people have to adapt themselves to the world that will exist and not try to recreate the past.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that highly skilled men such as miners are perfectly capable of being trained for the new high technology jobs if the training is available? Does he agree that there is no need to keep them in traditional manual jobs?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I suspect that those who have gone into other jobs and those who are undergoing training are very grateful not to have to continue in the mines.
We must ensure that we provide the training that is required in the areas concerned when it is known what jobs are available. That is what my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment does through the training agency.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware of the qualitative reports which concluded that the privatisation of electricity would lead to an influx of imported coal to the extent that an additional 50,000 miners in this country would be made redundant? Can he say what is the Government's reaction to that and what steps they propose to take to deal with the problems of the areas affected?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition has raised a matter which is not only far from the Question but is also not within my knowledge at the moment. I shall certainly have a look at the report. However, almost every week I read authoritative reports which in the event are not borne out by the facts. I suspect that that will always be the case.

Lord Morris
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, despite the fact that 75 per cent. of the Kent coalfield has closed down, the miners have shown admirable initiative in not only seeking but finding new employment to a very great effect?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I am aware of that fact. I am concerned that we do not delude those people in industries whose time is past that the only employment available to them in the future is in similar industries. We have to encourage people to look for the opportunities that will exist in tomorrow's world. That has been the policy of this Government throughout this decade.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, the Secretary of State told me that 33,000 jobs had been created, largely by British Coal Enterprise. Is he aware that during the lifetime of this Government no fewer than 150,000 jobs have been lost in the mining industry, so there is still a long way to go? His noble friend talked about small businesses. Perhaps I may remind him that if a pit with 1,000 employees closes, it would take an awful lot of small businesses to make up that number.

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I said that British Coal Enterprise had helped to create 33,420 jobs. The noble Lord must appreciate that never before in the entire history of the British Isles have so many men and women been in paid employment as there are today. No other country within the European Community has created 3 million new jobs, as this Government have done. This is a time to congratulate the Government on their efforts and not the time for carping criticism of one particular aspect.

Noble Lords
Hear, hear!

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, will the noble Lord clarify one point? Is he aware that the United Kingdom, through the Council of Ministers, has agreed to the EC principle of additionality? Is he aware that the current practice seems to be that, wherever a grant is made available from the EC, particularly for regional purposes, it is automatically deducted from the Treasury contribution that would otherwise have to be made? Will he come clean as to whether or not the Government accept the principle of additionality?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I am not sure that I follow the point made by the noble Lord. If he is very concerned about it, I am happy to assure him that the Government accept the principle of additionality.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, as one who for personal reasons continues to take an interest in the area concerned, I should like to ask whether there is a sphere of activity, rather outside the ambit of some of the questions which have been put, in which the Government can legitimately play a useful part in the restoration of areas in which employment is rendered difficult by reason of the closure of various industries, namely infrastructure. There are communications, airfields and ports, there are fields of higher and further education, and there is housing. There are many areas which can properly be made the subject of a survey and can be used as a source of further employment. Will my noble friend confirm that those are legitimate fields in which work can be done?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I am glad to pay tribute to my noble and learned friend for the work that he did decades ago in the North-East. Probably as a result of that work we are seeing an amazing resurgence of the enterprise for which the North-East was once rightly famous. If my noble friend were to go to a town like Consett, which used to exist as a one-industry steel town, and see the enormous variety of employment there today and the hope that exists in that community, he would indeed feel very pleased.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, the Minister has told the House that the Government accepts the principle of additionality. Will he put his hand on his heart and say that the Government will act upon it?

§ Lord Young of Graffham
My Lords, I can assure the noble Baroness that I will have a good look for my heart and I shall then put my hand on it.