HL Deb 09 June 1989 vol 508 cc1058-61

11.11 a.m.

Lord Northfield asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will make representations to the Government of Taiwan, a country which imports substantial quantities of ivory, to join the international ban on ivory imports now being proposed by the French and United Kingdom governments.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, we are deeply concerned about the illegal poaching of African elephants for ivory. Her Majesty's Government have no formal dealings with the authorities in Taiwan but your Lordships will have heard the good news yesterday from the EC Environmental Council, which has agreed to important new restrictions on the import of ivory into the Community. My noble friend Lord Caithness has announced an immediate national ban on the import of all forms of ivory into the United Kingdom.

Lord Northfield

My Lords, will the noble Lord convey to the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, the congratulations of the whole House on the part he played in Luxembourg yesterday evening in securing this European Community-wide ban on the importation of ivory?

As regards Taiwan, since we have no diplomatic relations with that country I understand that the matter is difficult. However, could not the Government ask the United States to use its good offices with Taiwan—it has a stronger influence there than we have—to encourage the Government of Taiwan to join the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species and to join in this present ban on ivory?

Secondly, can we not encourage the Taiwanese Government ourselves, through our trade relations with them—they wish to have greater relations with the West and perhaps recognition by the West—and say to them that this civilised action would do a great deal to help strengthen relations with the West?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, we shall certainly lose no opportunity to convey informally the necessary messages to the Taiwanese; but I think that perhaps the most important message will be the EC agreement to which I have referred. That will leave everyone outside the ambit of that agreement in no doubt as to our views.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I join my noble friend in congratulating the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, on the success of his initiative yesterday. Is it not a fact that a conference on international trade in endangered species is to be held in October and that Her Majestys' Government will be represented? Would not that be an appropriate forum in which to raise the problem of Taiwan and other similar countries?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have no doubt that all these matters will be discussed at the conference later this year to which the noble Lord referred. The important objective to be achieved now is to put African elephants into what I believe is called Appendix I of the conference agreement so that they have the total protection that Indian elephants have currently.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is not the Minister aware that the endeavours of the Government are the only hope for saving elephants? For example, this morning on Radio 4, after the nine o'clock news, there was a programme which indicated that the elephant population will decrease by hundreds of thousands every year. Therefore, the endeavours of the Government must command the support of everyone who does not want to see the extinction of elephants. Everyone should support the British Government.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for those observations. It is the case that the African elephant is undoubtedly an endangered species. If something is not done it will in due course disappear altogether.

Lord Northfield

My Lords, the Minister did not reply—I am not complaining—to my point suggesting that the Foreign Office might try to obtain the good offices of the United States in putting pressure on Taiwan. Will the noble Lord convey that suggestion to the Foreign Office?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I believe I replied to that question in my reference to the informal contacts.

Lord Plunket

My Lords, perhaps I may put this point to my noble friend the Minister. A total ban on the sale of ivory could be highly counter-productive and have considerable adverse effects on countries such as Zimbabwe where the highest animal conservation practices are carried out. It would result in the illegal sale of ivory and would cut off an extremely important source of revenue to that government.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, my noble friend raises an important point. When I was in Zimbabwe recently I was offered some ivory statuettes, which I did not buy because of my rejection of that proposition. I was told that the ivory came from a respectable source. Indeed, there are respectable sources of ivory because elephants have to be culled from time to time, not least in Zimbabwe, as my noble friend indicated. However, the essence of the problem is that the African elephant is undoubtedly a threatened and endangered species and something must be done.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, although there are no diplomatic relations between Taiwan and this country, is my noble friend the Minister aware that there is a Taiwan trade centre in the West End? Is it possible for Her Majesty's Government to make representations through that source?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I think the Taiwanese authorities will be in no doubt as to the view of the United Kingdom Government and indeed the people of the United Kingdom on this matter. They now have the view of the people of the European Community as well and it is up to them to take the right action.